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CrazyMotorcycleGuy, Sal_the_man
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  (#16)
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May 7, 2018, 03:57 PM

So someone is getting their stolen dirt bike back?
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  (#17)
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May 7, 2018, 04:22 PM

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  (#18)
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May 7, 2018, 04:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by scarab View Post
I'm kind of conflicted about this. It's not like someone deserved to die, but how is an LEO supposed to stop a fleeing vehicle if not by barricading escape routes?

Actually in most jurisdictions it is illegal or at least against policy to create a 'road block' that physically blocks the road.


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  (#19)
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May 7, 2018, 05:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHatch View Post
Question: Would he be dead if he wasn't running from the police and traveling at a rate that is at least 2-3X the speed-limit?

If the police do not attempt to intercept the fleeing vehicle and he plows into a bus stop, you can bet the police are going to be in the shit at that point. Rightfully so as well.
Where are you getting information that the biker was going 2-3 times the speed limit? that's pure speculation.

DC police aren't supposed to intercept a fleeing vehicle who committed a traffic infraction



Quote:
Originally Posted by scarab View Post
I'm kind of conflicted about this. It's not like someone deserved to die, but how is an LEO supposed to stop a fleeing vehicle if not by barricading escape routes?

A cruiser shouldn't be used to run a biker down, but I'm guessing that pulling in front of a fleeing vehicle is one of the standard methods to apprehend. .
LEO in the DC police dept are simply NOT supposed to stop a bike. They are not supposed to chase, and against policy to use your vehicle to box them in like they did Sterling or kill this dirt biker like they did.

POLICE LEARNED NOTHING FROM THE STERLING CASE.
All they did was violate DC police policy and kill yet another biker for a minor traffic infraction


Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyMotorcycleGuy View Post
Actually in most jurisdictions it is illegal or at least against policy to create a 'road block' that physically blocks the road.
Definitely against DC policy, this was proven in the Sterling murder case
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  (#20)
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May 7, 2018, 06:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gixxer123 View Post
Where are you getting information that the biker was going 2-3 times the speed limit? that's pure speculation.

DC police aren't supposed to intercept a fleeing vehicle who committed a traffic infraction.

LEO in the DC police dept are simply NOT supposed to stop a bike. They are not supposed to chase, and against policy to use your vehicle to box them in like they did Sterling or kill this dirt biker like they did.

POLICE LEARNED NOTHING FROM THE STERLING CASE.
All they did was violate DC police policy and kill yet another biker for a minor traffic infraction

Definitely against DC policy, this was proven in the Sterling murder case
Speed limit on that road is 25mph. You can't make that skid mark, even if you tried to just lock up on the rear tire, going 25mph. Plain and simple. Physics are your friend here.

I also said previously that I don't think they should use their car as a road block here. See previous post.

Make no mistake though, in this situation, 1 person could have changed the outcome more than anyone else and made it so they were home and sleeping in their own bed tonight.

Were there any other referring charges here or was this just a traffic stop? Do you know about what the calls were in this case?

Any copies or references to policy in this case?

How would you feel about them stopping guys riding like a-holes on the street if that a-hole on a bike ran over your sister on the road? Everything sounds great in a bubble.
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  (#21)
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May 7, 2018, 06:28 PM

Nearly 120' of skid mark.....not from going 25mph.

How fast you think he was going to lay down 120' of skid mark, still strike the cruiser, fold in the door that much, and launch himself to what would be a fatal collision with pavement/car/etc?
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  (#22)
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May 7, 2018, 07:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHatch View Post
Were there any other referring charges here or was this just a traffic stop? Do you know about what the calls were in this case?

Any copies or references to policy in this case?

How would you feel about them stopping guys riding like a-holes on the street if that a-hole on a bike ran over your sister on the road? Everything sounds great in a bubble.
There were no other charges than traffic violations. Instead of giving him a ticket for unregistered vehicle on public road, they killed him.

Policy? Have you not heard of DC police killing the biker Sterling? If you read that case you will immediately know they state what the police polices where and that the driver of the cop car broke them. FACT. The cop in the SUV in this dirt bike case broke the same policies. They learned NOTHING
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  (#23)
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May 7, 2018, 07:30 PM

A department's individual pursuit policy does not circumvent criminal/traffic/Constitutional law. This is the reason that even when an officer may be found in the wrong, they rarely if ever get charged with anything other than an internal investigation. Different circumstances require different actions. This is why courts account for the reasonableness of the officer's actions but more heavily the unreasonableness of the offending party. Hence, the courts generally tell Joe Shitbag and his family, they can wipe their ass with the agency's pursuit policy.

The family will never admit their loved was wrong because he was an idiot. Now that he's gone, this is nothing more than an attempt at a pay day. Nothing more, nothing less.
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  (#24)
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May 7, 2018, 07:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prospected View Post
A department's individual pursuit policy does not circumvent criminal/traffic/Constitutional law. This is the reason that even when an officer may be found in the wrong, they rarely if ever get charged with anything other than an internal investigation. Different circumstances require different actions. This is why courts account for the reasonableness of the officer's actions but more heavily the unreasonableness of the offending party. Hence, the courts generally tell Joe Shitbag and his family, they can wipe their ass with the agency's pursuit policy.

The family will never admit their loved was wrong because he was an idiot. Now that he's gone, this is nothing more than an attempt at a pay day. Nothing more, nothing less.
That's great and all but nobody ever debated the legality of it all. I know the difference between criminal and civil, I used my words carefully. That's why I said the officer broke DC POLICE POLICY, not the DC law. We all should have learned this when they killed sterling. Police were never found criminally guilty, but they did pay millions to the family civilly. The police found the officer did not have fear for his life, which means he should have not killed Sterling, but he did, which should have been murder, but DC Policy policy was not law so nothing criminal happened to the cop.

My point is, the cop in the dirt bike incident broke the same DC Police policy they did when they killed sterling, so DC will be paying millions once again. DC taxpaying Residents will not be too happy that cops did not learn from the last lawsuit payout less than a year ago.


No one is debating the dirt rider should have not had that bike on city streets. Why are you trying to make a point that no one is debating and already knows? But if you watch the interviews on TV, the family clearly stated they knew he shouldn't be riding the bike, and that their gripe was that he should not have been punished by death for doing so.
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  (#25)
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May 7, 2018, 08:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gixxer123 View Post
Where are you getting information that the biker was going 2-3 times the speed limit? that's pure speculation.
One could easily speculate that the officer drove in to oncoming traffic in an attempt to avoid the motorcyclist. But you would rather speculate that the officer was out for blood.


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  (#26)
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May 7, 2018, 09:13 PM

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One could easily speculate that the officer drove in to oncoming traffic in an attempt to avoid the motorcyclist. But you would rather speculate that the officer was out for blood.
The police car is perpendicular to the roadway. He wasn't going left or right, he was heading straight to the curb, just look at the video. Its not a reach to say the cop cut the bike off. I know, yall may not like the ugly truth, but it is what it is
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  (#27)
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May 7, 2018, 11:53 PM

I don't even care when normal people die, why should I give a fuck that some hood rat garbage person died?
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  (#28)
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May 8, 2018, 01:53 AM

Whether you agree with his fate or do not, the umbrella issue for D.C. in so much as procedural violation which will undoubtedly lead to yet another large wrongful death civil payout, is that D.C. MPD policy, without question, which we learned in the Terrence Sterling case, states:

i. MPD has a 'no chase' policy for traffic offenses.
ii. Police vehicles may not be used as barricades or rams.



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  (#29)
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May 8, 2018, 02:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by justdance View Post
I don't even care when normal people die, why should I give a fuck that some hood rat garbage person died?
You may want to choke down on the passing out the tinged pejoratives and dispersion.

When I get out into North Western, MD, Eastern Shore, and Southern, VA I see plenty of off-road use only machines using public roads.

There are more than a few people here who ride their dirt bike / motard / sportbike illegally or in a illegal manner (and who run when they see blue).

It doesn't make them an [xyz] person; it does make them a person who probably made a series of poor decisions overall and throughout. Nothing more, nothing less.



“Any man who tries to be good all the time is bound to come to ruin among the great number who are not good. Hence a Prince who wants to keep his authority must learn how not to be good, and use that knowledge, or refrain from using it, as necessity requires”.

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  (#30)
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May 8, 2018, 07:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gixxer123 View Post
There were no other charges than traffic violations. Instead of giving him a ticket for unregistered vehicle on public road, they killed him.

Policy? Have you not heard of DC police killing the biker Sterling? If you read that case you will immediately know they state what the police polices where and that the driver of the cop car broke them. FACT. The cop in the SUV in this dirt bike case broke the same policies. They learned NOTHING
Seeing as the cases and the situations leading up to both are completely different, to draw broad strokes conclusions between them is quite a stretch.

Terrence Sterling was shot and killed in this case and the vehicle that he struck was not really moving. It was used as a barrier in this case to contain a suspect that was reported going north of 100 mph through a multiple blocks chase.

He was killed with a firearm and the violation of policy in this case was the officer turning on his body cam after he shot Sterling. Totally different set of circumstances and I find no reference to them violating DC policy with regards to their vehicle usage.

Happy to look at something if you have something different, but if you are going to tell me that the cops can't block in someone when they have a clear set of barriers on either side and the fleeing vehicle isn't really moving at that time....What the F*ck are they allowed to do then?

The irony is that you probably be the first person to cry foul and bitch and complain about the cops enforcing a strict "no pursuit" policy when one of these guys "riding dirty" plows through a bus stop and kills someone.

So which is it? We should tell the cops to enforce the laws or not?

I have already conceded that I don't think the vehicle should have been used as a battering ram, but at what point can you really not make the engagement with the subject safe when they are clearly going 2-3X the speed limit...maybe faster.

Did you see the 120+ feet of skid mark? I guess you are going to tell me that he made that skid mark going 28 mph in a 25?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gixxer123 View Post
The police car is perpendicular to the roadway. He wasn't going left or right, he was heading straight to the curb, just look at the video. Its not a reach to say the cop cut the bike off. I know, yall may not like the ugly truth, but it is what it is
What about any of this to you have the rider assume any responsibility?

If someone is going 100 mph down a road (theoretically) are they not still culpable if someone accidentally cuts them off? The speed laws are there to allow for reaction times when other people screw up....this is how this works.

The police are still investigating so I will wait to see what they come up with or if they release the footage...which they should.

If the cop veered into his path at the last minute and he could neither stop or avoid the collision...that is bad.

Based on the length of the skid marks, it appears that he would have had more than ample time to avoid the collision if he was observing even a modicum of speed limit adherence.
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