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Advanced Tips for a Beginner
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Join Date: September 18, 2012
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Advanced Tips for a Beginner - April 4, 2013, 05:47 PM

Awesome little write up from a FAST guy

here is my review of PSSR's Ridge Motorsports Park event - Page 2 - PNW Riders

Knowledge and Understanding for me starts with the fact that different corners require different strategies to go fast. Understanding that all corners are not the same is crucial. As new riders we tend to have one "movement pattern" and use the same "brake/steering timing' for all corners.... we brake, turn in and get to our max lean asap. We use this same pattern for all corners at all tracks and it works just fine in some corners but not so good in others.

Corners can be approached in a few different ways. Take turn one at The Ridge for example, this is a perfect example of an Entry Type Corner. For me there is zero acceleration out of turn one... if fact I am on the brakes all the way up to the entrance of turn two. Therefor we can modify how we ride this corner to maximize a longer-faster entry and sacrifice any ability to accelerate out of the corner. Thus slowest part of Turn One for me is very deep into the corner.... wayyyy past the apex curb you pass as you enter the corner. The max lean point is also way past the apex. We are gradually adding lean, and trailing the brakes as we pass the apex in turn one. NOTE: The only way you can trail your front brake well past the apex, is to build your lean angle gradually until you hit max lean and brakes are fully off at the slowest point.

Now look at the final right hand corner at The Ridge that leads you onto the front straight. This corner is the exact opposite of turn one and it is a perfect example of an Exit Type Corner... it has zero braking going in, and has a huge drive out onto the front straight. Therefor we can modify how we ride this corner to maximize a longer faster drive out of the corner. For maximum drive the slowest part, and maximum lean both need to be need to be before the apex, we need to reduce lean angle as we pass the apex. The safest way to be hard on the throttle is to be reducing lean angle as you add significant throttle.

These are two polar opposites of an "Entry Type Corner" and an "Exit Type Corner". Most corners are a blend of both to some degree but it's up to us to figure out what trait of either one will allow us to get through quicker.

Understanding the differences in corners will enable you to understand how/why the slowest part of the corner, and point of max lean varies from one corner to the next. It's crucial to have your slow part/max lean in the correct spot in the corner. Read this sentence 10 times as it is the most important thing to understand. Everything else you ever learn about how to go faster and safer on a bike relates back to this fundamental concept.

An easy way to figure out your stragagy for a given corner is to ask yourself what lasts longest..... the entry or the exit? Now if the entry and exit happen to be about the same, then it's a balanced corner. You can ride a balanced corner as either entry type, or exit type and it will not affect lap times much. If it's a fairly long balanced corner with lots of time spent mid corner at maintenance throttle (EG. turn 6 at The Ridge or turn 2 at T-Hill) we could treat it as 2 separate corners. We can ride it as an Entry Corner on the way in, and and exit corner on the way out. This is exactly how I attack turn 6 at The Ridge... most people just treat it as one long corner with soooo much time at maintenance throttle.

On the track it is apparent that a lot of riders are stuck with some version of the cornering skills they learned at MSF or perhaps from friends while street riding. The common trend I see is that riders strive to get braking done before the corner, set the speed before the corner starts, release the brake and turn into the corner. This works fine on the street at the posted speed limit, but when you get on the track and add significantly more speed it simply does not work any more. Using this technique your slowest part is almost always way too soon in the corner. The problem is that as you get braver and start going faster, this technique forces you to add more lean as you add more throttle. This is a very bad combination! This is where learning how to trail brake will transform your riding and give you more confidence and feel for the amount of grip you have at any given moment. There is another thread somewhere where I made a few posts about trailbraking..... Fred this paragraph starts to address your question about how fast guys are able to carry more speed into a corner and KNOW that the front tire will grip. The rest of the answer is using trail braking to increase the size of the contact patch under the front tire thus giving you more grip than if you release the brake too soon and get on the gas too soon. I have been talking about having your slowest point in the right spot in the corner, and in an entry type corner the slowest point needs to be deep into the corner past the apex... the only way to accomplish this is if you are proficient at trailing your brakes as you enter.

Thats all I have time for this part at the moment....


In the video there were zero oh shit moments, definitely not "just cruisin" but crashing sucks and I never push my personal limit, but there is one pass in that vid that I did not feel good about. I did get into turn 6 a bit hot one lap and was about 10 feet wide of my normal spot where I fully let off the brakes, (you can see where I crossed the seam mid corner where as other laps I stay inside the seam.)

Regarding sliding tires.... you can see the front tire squirm mid corner a few times in turn 6 and 15, and the rear squirms at corner exit pretty much everywhere there is hard acceleration.

It's probably best if people do not quote this entire thing in a reply.... that way I can go back and add more when I have time without loosing the edits to peoples quotes etc, Feel free to ask questions though....

Cheers,

Pat

VIDEO: The Ridge June 18 2012.mp4 - YouTube

Last edited by !ThatGuy!; April 4, 2013 at 05:49 PM..
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April 4, 2013, 05:57 PM

Seemed like pretty good tips to me. Def advanced techniques IMO. Not sure I want to start attempting trail braking just yet.

Last edited by !ThatGuy!; April 4, 2013 at 05:59 PM..
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April 4, 2013, 06:29 PM

Good read. I need to start practicing that.


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Im not really fast enough to notice a difference between tires. I buy the kind thats black and made out of rubber.
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April 4, 2013, 11:46 PM

I'd like to add "Don't join a forum and make fggt, vague postings in broken English."


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April 5, 2013, 12:38 PM

Quote:
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I'd like to add "Don't join a forum and make fggt, vague postings in broken English."
WTF are you talking about?
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I'm a Rookie, How do I Wheelie?
 
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March 27, 2014, 02:44 PM

Good thread.
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I'm a Rookie, How do I Wheelie?
 
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June 9, 2015, 10:44 AM

great info
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June 9, 2015, 10:48 AM

Price? Pics?


-Fitz

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I'm a Rookie, How do I Wheelie?
 
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June 25, 2015, 01:14 AM

Seems to be moving out of beginner territory
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I'm a Rookie, How do I Wheelie?
 
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November 17, 2015, 01:48 AM

Useful information. Very well written.
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November 17, 2015, 05:44 AM

Quote:
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I'd like to add "Don't join a forum and make fggt, vague postings in broken English."
are you a time traveler?
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I'm a Rookie, How do I Wheelie?
 
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August 22, 2016, 11:41 PM

nice read
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