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  (#1)
Knee Draggin!
 
Modian's Avatar
 
Posts: 576
Join Date: September 30, 2002
Location: Manassas
March 18, 2003, 10:53 PM

Just figured out why my forum is fuqed. Missing a bunch of old posts. Including my beautiful how to corner post. So I decided to make a new one that also answers some questions I raised in another thread.

Are you stiff and leaning on the bars? Do you know why you shouldn't be?

Being stiff on the bars can lead to all sorts of problems. It makes it harder to turn, makes the bike less stable and kills your wrists. The motorcycle is a self correcting machine. It will always fix itself if it can and it's going fast enough. If you're too tight on the bars, it reduces the machines ability to fix itself and will amplify any shakes. If your front end leaves the ground and comes back down at a slight turn, and you're tight on the bars, hello slapper. If you're loose you'll get a little slapper which will correct itself in a second. If you're not, it'll probably turn into a big one. Some people get a damper to help keep this from happening or keep them small. I haven't found a need for one, but that's me personally. A little slapper here or there doesn't bother me and I think they're kinda fun. But I'm weird.

Always keep your arms loose and use your back and legs to support yourself. People laugh when I say it, but you should be able to flap your arms easily like a chicken. I'd do that sometimes when I was training myself to stay loose. Give a little flap here and there just to make sure I was still loose. Looks goofy, but it helps ingrain a habit that you need. (This is also on page 42 of TOTW2. Found this after I'd started doing it. Great minds think alike )

Stay loose on the bars at all times. Even in a panic situation, stay loose! Riding will be much smoother and more enjoyable if you do.

Do you hang off the bike? Do you know why you should and how it affects the handling?

Center of gravity is your friend, as is lean angle. Hanging off allows you to use less lean for the same speed. Conversely, it allows you to use more speed for the same lean. It brings your weight lower and more to the inside of the corner, which also helps it turn easier and makes the bike much more stable. So stable I've dropped my hand off the bar at times to run along the ground. I'm sure you've seen pictures of a guy in a corner flicking the camera off. It's not hard and shows how stable a bike in the corner is. I noticed a huge improvement in my cornering once I started doing it. (Hanging off, not flicking people off) The bike got a lot more stable and I got more confidence. At first it was just one cheek. Now I get so far off, my head is outside the mirror at the beginning of a turn.

Do you know how to brake in a corner and not lowside or run off the road?

I should've clarified and said panic brake. Some people brake and try to prevent the bike from doing it's natural thing: stand up. Hello overloaded front and lowslide. Some people let the bike do it's thing, but get in a panic, go straight up and then run off the road. The correct thing to do is match your lean to your speed. Let the bike come up as it wants to do, and as the bike slows, keep a lean that will get you thru the corner. If done right, you shouldn't even waver from your line. It should also be done quickly but with the right amount of brake. Also do not grab a fistful of brake. Apply pressure evenly but quickly. This is only for emergency situations. Do NOT do this for corner corrections. I had to do this this weekend on 211 when we came on some snow melt. Dropped from 80 to 50 and stayed dead middle in the lane. And there was so much sand on the road that the guy in front of me was kicking up a rooster tail. (Yet we were still railing it? :dunno: )

Do you know the best thing to do if your rear starts to slide?

Nothing. Zilch. Zero. Not a damn thing. The bike will fix itself, and anything you do might just make it worse or cause an accident. As the rear slides it's also swinging out in an arc. Longer the slide, farther it goes. The bike will compensate for this automatically. The worst thing to do? Chop the throttle or try to keep it from arcing or both. May I introduce Mr Highside? If you cut the throttle, it will instantly hook up and do the natural thing which is stand up and get in line with the front. But it will do so with a lot of torque. Usually the slide will happen so fast though that you won't have time to do anything so it's moot.

If you are very familiar with your bike and understand throttle control, there are other things you can do. I'll stick to the rear wheel since that's what I'm most familiar with. When it starts sliding, it's actually traveling faster than your relative speed. Think of it as a mini burnout. So I will let off the throttle slightly to bring the tires speed down and let it hook back up quicker. I will also stand the bike up slightly, as this usually happens when I'm on the edge of the contact patch. After I catch, I'll bring the bike back down. All this happens in heartbeats. I rarely do this. Usually I just stay on the gas and do nothing.

I've gone thru countless slides and never had a problem. I've also overheated my tires so much that thru one turn my rear slid, then my front, then my rear, then my front again. Got thru the corner, thought "That was fun" and hit the next corner. The important thing is to not panic, not get scared, and do not let it mess with your concentration. I didn't slow down that day till it had slid out on me about 6 more times. Then I finally had enough, lol.


Do you know how to correct an understeer? An oversteer?

To correct these is opposite than natural instincts. To correct an understeer, you want to get on the gas. To correct an oversteer, you want to lay off the gas a little. (NOT chopping). I'll quote rixride and miller here.

Quote:
Well, the tendency is to lock up the brakes, go straight and just run off and wreck...but in reality what you need to do is get off the brake and give it gas to move your force/weight off of your front tires and onto the rear. This will allow you to turn into the corner.

The hardest part about it is convincing yourself to give it gas when your mashing on the brakes.

Its like the bikes going straight and your trying to lean it and it aint going anywhere..as soon as you give it a little gas, you will feel the bike behaving thats when you "Lean and Pray" and hope you've hit the gas soon enough.
Quote:
A bike should not run wide mid corner if you are on the throttle propperly. Even if you are on the throttle too much, the bike should tighten the turn up from the rear spooling up and coming around. Laying off the throttle will cause a bike to run wide from the front wheel having too much weight on it.
If someone enters a turn hot, the worst thing to do is not get on the gas. Going in faster than you feel is right, plus being on the brake, trail braking, and NOT getting on the gas, is a sure way to tuck the front.

Are you grinding your pegs? Do you think you're fast because you do?

I'll give you a hint. The pegs on my R6 have never touched the ground. And I still have the feelers on them. If your pegs are touching you're either a) not hanging off enough and have way too much lean going on with too high a center of gravity or b) are dragging knee, elbow, and peg and hopefully are on a track. Dragging pegs is not something to be proud of, and if I do it, I know I'm fuqing up somewhere.


How to corner - Before the corner

- Stay loose on the bars.
- Apply the brakes. derrrrr. All braking should be done before any steering input and before you get to the corner.
- Set your body up. I usually do this before braking or during. Raise up a little off the seat using your legs and move off the bike towards the direction of the turn. Push with your outside leg. The bike will lean opposite the turn anyway since you're still going straight and this will help make it smoother and easier. You should now be off the bike, the bike is leaning away from the turn, and you're ready to drop down.
- Pick your line and fall down. When you get good and fast at dropping into a corner, this is basically what it feels like. Push the bar pointing into the corner, pull the opposite, whatever. Countersteer the bike. Basically, fall over till you have the lean you want as you hit the entry to the corner. The time from straight up to lean angle should be as quick as possible but it takes time and practice.

How to corner - During the corner

- Stay loose on the bars.
- Get on the gas as soon as possible. If you coast you will be slowing down as you go thru the corner. You will also be putting more weight on the front which can cause you to go wide or even lowside if you're over too far. You want your weight on the rear as it has a much bigger contact patch and is what actually steers the bike when you're in a corner.
- Steadily apply more gas thru the turn. This keeps you moving thru the turn at least at the same speed as well as keeps weight on the rear.
- Look where you want to go. As far thru the corner as you can see. You will go where you look. If you want to make it, look at the end.
- If you find yourself in a deceasing radius, lean the bike more and stay on the gas. Do not panic. Unless you are dragging something, you are not at the limits of your bike.

How to corner - After the corner

- Smile and hit the next one.
- If the next corner is close and in the same direction, you don't even need to move your body. Leave it hanging off.
- If you are in an S curve, as the bike is coming up, lift your weight up and move over the top to the other side. If you use the outside peg outlined above, you should be able to do it fast and be on the opposite side of the bike right as it comes straight up. Then fall down to the other side. Remember to stay loose on the bars at all times and only use your legs so you don't introduce unwanted input to the steering.

I know I had more in the last corner post, but I can't remember all of it.

Comments and arguments welcome. I might've made some mistakes since I'm kinda tired and my cat is bugging me for attention. Spoiled bastard.

-Mod
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  (#2)
I'm a Rookie, How do I Wheelie?
 
Posts: 12
Join Date: April 20, 2003
April 20, 2003, 06:03 PM

i was reading your post with the greed of a newbie to suck up on all i could get, before my MSF, your post is very helpful the lingo is a little too thick though for me for right now, so i am going to ask again for both, the turns - the cornering on the braking,sliding,arching... what should i anticipate, where can i practise where this is legal and cops wont bust me??

and how do i control the bike do i shift my weight back on it as it stands up or slides, what should i do with my weight, and whats arching by the way....

thanks


:withstupid:

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  (#3)
GP Racer
 
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April 20, 2003, 06:50 PM

don't listen to him! HE rides without pantz! :o

J/K

He's also crazy fast,....
ie, fast, but crazy! :laugh:

feel free to pm me w/questions,....
no question is 'stupid' in my book,....

VA class 'M' for 22 yrs!
Happy to teach, still willing to learn!

'00 R6 (9th bike) [20k+ mi.]
[the faster red, white & black one!]


IF you crash and are not wearing the gear,
it's not an accident, ......... it's stupidity!




“To announce that there must be no criticism of the president,
or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not
only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the
American public.” -Theodore Roosevelt
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  (#4)
GP Racer
 
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April 20, 2003, 06:54 PM

don't listen to him! HE rides without pantz! :o

J/K

He's also crazy fast,....
ie, fast, but crazy! :laugh:

feel free to pm me w/questions,....
no question is 'stupid' in my book,....

VA class 'M' for 22 yrs!
Happy to teach, still willing to learn!

'00 R6 (9th bike) [20k+ mi.]
[the faster red, white & black one!]


IF you crash and are not wearing the gear,
it's not an accident, ......... it's stupidity!




“To announce that there must be no criticism of the president,
or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not
only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the
American public.” -Theodore Roosevelt
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  (#5)
Knee Draggin!
 
Modian's Avatar
 
Posts: 576
Join Date: September 30, 2002
Location: Manassas
April 28, 2003, 09:26 PM

Didn't I tell you I got a suit?



Already broken in, pucks and everything, lol

-Mod

[Edited on 4/29/2003 by Modian]
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  (#6)
Knee Draggin!
 
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April 28, 2003, 09:31 PM

Quote:
i was reading your post with the greed of a newbie to suck up on all i could get, before my MSF, your post is very helpful the lingo is a little too thick though for me for right now, so i am going to ask again for both, the turns - the cornering on the braking,sliding,arching... what should i anticipate, where can i practise where this is legal and cops wont bust me??

and how do i control the bike do i shift my weight back on it as it stands up or slides, what should i do with my weight, and whats arching by the way....
Depending on how new you are, I don't think it'd be good to start practicing this yet. Get several thousand miles under your belt, and get used to how the bike reacts in normal situations. Get comfortable with it. Then we can work on practicing this stuff.

-Mod
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Officially Addicted to Posting
 
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April 28, 2003, 11:47 PM

Quote:
Do you hang off the bike? Do you know why you should and how it affects the handling?

Center of gravity is your friend, as is lean angle. Hanging off allows you to use less lean for the same speed. Conversely, it allows you to use more speed for the same lean. It brings your weight lower and more to the inside of the corner, which also helps it turn easier and makes the bike much more stable. So stable I've dropped my hand off the bar at times to run along the ground. I'm sure you've seen pictures of a guy in a corner flicking the camera off. It's not hard and shows how stable a bike in the corner is. I noticed a huge improvement in my cornering once I started doing it. (Hanging off, not flicking people off) The bike got a lot more stable and I got more confidence. At first it was just one cheek. Now I get so far off, my head is outside the mirror at the beginning of a turn.
Am I nuts, or is this guy hanging off too far? Looks like he's on the side of the bike. :o



P.S. thanks for posting this stuff again, I was looking for it a while back and was bummed it was gone.

[Edited on 4/29/2003 by rddy]
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GP Racer
 
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Posts: 1,174
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April 29, 2003, 12:33 AM

actually, Dave,....

this guy just needs to take a leak,...

really, really bad,....

and doesn't want to get the seat wet,....

'cause there's still 15 laps to go!


:o


~ werd!


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the president,
or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not
only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the
American public.” -Theodore Roosevelt
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GP Racer
 
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April 29, 2003, 12:39 AM

Quote:
Didn't I tell you I got a suit?

Already broken in, pucks and everything, lol

-Mod
aw, come on, Mod,.....

it's not really broken in,....

until you high-sided in it,....

at 60mph+,...

and broke yer shit!

:o

~ Greg



“To announce that there must be no criticism of the president,
or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not
only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the
American public.” -Theodore Roosevelt
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  (#10)
Railing!
 
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April 29, 2003, 01:16 AM

rddy, is it just me, or does it look like he's draggin peg??

rajmeister


rajmeister

97 GSX-R600
Check it out HERE
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  (#11)
Knee Draggin!
 
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April 29, 2003, 10:37 AM

Quote:
Am I nuts, or is this guy hanging off too far? Looks like he's on the side of the bike.
No, he's fine. Remember, the more you hang off, the less bike lean you need for a corner at the same speed. It lowers your center of gravity. I remember one guy I know who was screwing around, and went thru a corner so far off the bike, he WAS on the side. Bike was almost completely straight up. lol

-Mod

[Edited on 4/29/2003 by Modian]
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Licensed Rider
 
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April 18, 2004, 04:41 PM

sound to me like the hardest thing for us newbs is to get over the fear of leaning off the center of the bike, and learning to trust it!

I can't wait!
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April 30, 2005, 09:09 AM

Just doing some homework, thanks!


RICO

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