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CrazyMotorcycleGuy, MPSniper
Most users ever online was 4,519, September 2, 2015 at 03:26 AM.
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  (#1)
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December 31, 2005, 10:41 PM

A while back someone asked me about braking, limit braking and over braking. And so to finally answer those questions.


Over braking is when you crash, whether the front end slides out or you loop over a stoppie. Anything just short of that is limit braking. Signs of maximum braking vary with the bike and ride combination. Some bikes have a tendency to stoppie and others will skid. Some can do either depending on various factors, such as weight bias and traction. A modern sportbike will stoppie provided that you apply proper braking technique, you have decent tires, the tires are up to temperature and the road surface is not abnormally slick. But given the same conditions, a cruiser would be still skid due to its rearward weight bias, steering geometry, and on some cruisers a very narrow front tire.

Suspension setup also plays a role in how a bike will behave when braking hard, particularly when the road surface is bumpy. Not enough compression damping or preload in front will increase the likelihood of a stoppie because the front end dives more making it easier for the rear to rise. An improper setup of the rear will also cause to rear to get knocked clear of the ground rather than absorb the bumps.

Brake hard, throw in some bumps and if the suspension does not rebound quickly enough, then it is possible for the wheel to lock up and slide and/or hop some. This is one cause of losing the front end completely and crashing. For the most part rear suspension setup is not so critical to braking performance, but will make a difference when you a really trying to trim down your lap times at the track.


'08 MARRC Expert Racer of the Year
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  (#2)
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January 1, 2006, 01:51 AM

Thanks for answering my PM, albeit three months later lol! I appreciate it. BTW, when do you usually have the scanner going?


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January 1, 2006, 10:43 AM

Good read Travis, rebound settings are tricky to me, too stiff and the front will "bounch" too soft and the suspension bottoms out...what you said makes a lot of sense though.

Any recommendations on what you've found to work the best in terms of rebound settings for the front?


Chris
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  (#4)
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January 1, 2006, 11:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by deviousR6
Any recommendations on what you've found to work the best in terms of rebound settings for the front?
With the exception of the SV1000 which I have barely ridden, I don't have any rebound settings. Preload only.

There is no way to say such and such is the correct setting. The correct setting is whatever works for your bike (including all its variables- geometry, tires, etc) with you on it and your riding style. Many times you can't achieve the ideal settings with stock suspension which is why it is often necessary to change springs, oil (weight and amount), and cartridges or emulators.

It's all about feel and feedback and what makes you comfortable.


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  (#5)
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January 1, 2006, 12:55 PM

Great read Travis. This gives me an idea of how I need to proceed as I set the the front end up on the 954.

Thanks.


God Speed Jeff! You'll never be forgotten.

BOOSTZX3 : in all seriousness head injuries ain't no joke. I've had around 10 concussions and now I ride a Buell Don't let it happen to you!
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  (#6)
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January 1, 2006, 05:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnySpeed954
Great read Travis. This gives me an idea of how I need to proceed as I set the the front end up on the 954.

Thanks.
Just a couple of friendly suggestions...

First make sure you know what you're doing before you mess with your suspension because if you do not properly set your suspension properly, your bike will become dangerously unstable.

Secondly, save the adjustments for the track, street speeds are way too slow to really set up your bike well.

There are a few on this board who can help you set up your suspension...

Good luck and be safe!


Chris
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January 1, 2006, 07:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by deviousR6
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnySpeed954
Great read Travis. This gives me an idea of how I need to proceed as I set the the front end up on the 954.

Thanks.
Just a couple of friendly suggestions...

First make sure you know what you're doing before you mess with your suspension because if you do not properly set your suspension properly, your bike will become dangerously unstable.

Secondly, save the adjustments for the track, street speeds are way too slow to really set up your bike well.

There are a few on this board who can help you set up your suspension...

Good luck and be safe!
RRonin and I set it for the street early on in the season but I want to have the front professionaly done. Send the forks away and have evrything redone. I'm going to have to use the 954 for the track for the first few times ubtill I afford the track bike and everything else I'm going to need.

Good lookin out though Chris!!!


God Speed Jeff! You'll never be forgotten.

BOOSTZX3 : in all seriousness head injuries ain't no joke. I've had around 10 concussions and now I ride a Buell Don't let it happen to you!
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  (#8)
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January 2, 2006, 09:37 AM

You and I both about the 9 on the track...

Thought that if you get the forks done you needed to do the rear shock as well?
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January 2, 2006, 09:47 AM

great read.

Suspension set up is one of the hardest things to learn, let alone master.

I always start with the correct sag, and middle of the road with the suspension ans rebound settings. Then I fine tune from there. Keep a log of what you change, when you chage it, and what the weather was like.

You don't have to change both the the fron and rear, but people will usually change the front then the rear, because you feel more with the front than the rear.


"Riding a race bike is an art - a thing that you do because you feel something inside."

"I don't like being famous - it is like a prison. And driving for Ferrari would make it far worse."

"I race to win. If I am on the bike or in a car it will always be the same."

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  (#10)
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January 2, 2006, 09:57 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 600K2
You and I both about the 9 on the track...

Thought that if you get the forks done you needed to do the rear shock as well?

In a word...yes. You MIGHT be the lucky guy who does one and and that works. But most people will end up with the front and rear endsd responding differently to the same bumps as they travel over them. This will set the bike up to start wallowing....and will in many cases make it feel even worse than it rode initially. Been there doen that due to time constraints once. Never again.

It's up to you though. If you do the front end...you might have to tune it to work with the unchanged rear. Not optimal...but better than nothing.

For more technical info....try here:

http://www.racetech.com/SubMenu.asp?...nu=9&showPage=


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  (#11)
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January 2, 2006, 10:10 AM

Great links Mudawg! I picked up a book that seems to give pretty good info on Supension tuning with is called motorcycle design and technology. The book actually provides some of the mathematical formulas used to calculate the physics behind what a bike is doing on the track.

It's pretty math based so if you like that type of approach this book is good.

ISBN is: 0-7603-1990-1


Chris
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  (#12)
Suddenly Superstitious!!!
 
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January 2, 2006, 10:15 AM

Try Kevin Cameron's book "Sportbike Performance Handbook". Some good basic information about bikes, suspension, engines, etc. If I'm not sure about somethign I generally start there.


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  (#13)
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January 2, 2006, 10:21 AM

should of done the rear first. Just keep in mind if/when you get the rear shock done, you will have to completely abandon the front settings and start all over cause an after market rear will make the bike work completely different that the stock shock/


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  (#14)
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January 3, 2006, 07:30 AM

My bad. Didn't post correctly.

I will be getting the rear done as well. Just doing the front first. Sending it away to a place called FireBlade Mechanics in Michigan. As suggested by the name, they specialize in working on Honda's. I spoke with them concerning the front and they will be redoing evrything.

Springs
Valves
Oil

And one thing I had never heard of. They are going to re sleeve the forkes. Nate explained this to me. I'll have the rear sent away once I have the front back and re mounted.


God Speed Jeff! You'll never be forgotten.

BOOSTZX3 : in all seriousness head injuries ain't no joke. I've had around 10 concussions and now I ride a Buell Don't let it happen to you!
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  (#15)
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January 3, 2006, 08:42 AM

Johnny, you got PM!
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