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Gear choice vs. turn
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Gear choice vs. turn - April 18, 2011, 09:10 AM

Here is my real question:

When I try to put the bike in first above a certain mph/rpm it has to be forced in, am I hurting the bike?


The reason I ask is:

When I'm going into a turn at 35ish,with some lean, I want power for my exit. I've been off and on playing with gear choice. First gear in that scenario I've got perfect power for my exit. In second, virtually none and the bike gets all out of whack (load ect).

In the first scenario I'm most likely coming off a higher rate of speed than the turn requires and have to force the bike into first. Am I damaging the bike?


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April 18, 2011, 09:43 AM

I'm not sure what kind of bike you are riding but personally I would highly recommend NOT shifting into 1st gear while riding on the street. The reason why it is so difficult to shift into 1st gear is because it can and will get you into a lot of trouble. If you don't have the right gearing to to come out of a 35 mph turn in 2nd it may be time to change that gearing.

Just my 2cents


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April 18, 2011, 09:56 AM

LOL
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April 18, 2011, 11:00 AM

I am able to compensate for the possible trouble staying in first may imply (ie, traction), or so I believe.



Does forcing the bike to shift into first damage the clutch/transmission or anything else?


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April 18, 2011, 11:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by StreetFighter
LOL
What's funny about this? Am I missing something?

Guy has a question.


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April 18, 2011, 11:19 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by EPlaw View Post
Here is my real question:

When I try to put the bike in first above a certain mph/rpm it has to be forced in, am I hurting the bike?


The reason I ask is:

When I'm going into a turn at 35ish,with some lean, I want power for my exit. I've been off and on playing with gear choice. First gear in that scenario I've got perfect power for my exit. In second, virtually none and the bike gets all out of whack (load ect).

In the first scenario I'm most likely coming off a higher rate of speed than the turn requires and have to force the bike into first. Am I damaging the bike?
Anytime you force the transmission into any gear damage can occur.
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April 18, 2011, 11:53 AM

...out of curiousity, just what do you mean by 'force' the bike into 1st? What exactly are you doing and what exactly is happening?


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April 18, 2011, 12:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by thesasse1 View Post
...out of curiousity, just what do you mean by 'force' the bike into 1st? What exactly are you doing and what exactly is happening?
When I'm down shifting into first it doesn't just go right in and when at a higher rpm/mph, it makes loud snap/crack sound when it goes in. I've owned this bike for six years and never had any issues as a result of it. I just wanted to know if that noise was possibly going to cost me a lot of money.


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April 18, 2011, 01:07 PM

To go into first while riding you are gonna have to match engine speed (RPM) to what it would be if you were already in first gear. Example...2nd gear at 35mph is 4k RPM, 1st gear at 35mph is at 7k RPM. The difference between 1st and 2nd is much bigger than in higher gears. So to smoothly go to 1st from 2nd you're gonna have to blip the throttle a bit more while the clutch is in. As you can infer, blipping the throttle when putting into first while going into a turn runs the risk of either pushing you forward or holding you back. There is a significant level of risk but if you feel you have wrists of gold and can hold the throttle in the perfect position while making this move then more power to ya and hope you stay safe.

I go into first while moving all the time, but I rarely go into first at speeds as high as 35mph. Last time I did that my rear went squiggling all over the place.
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April 18, 2011, 03:27 PM

if you want MORE power coming out of a turn in 2nd gear than JUST take the turn FASTER so you are higher into your powerband that you won't have to go in to first....lol....

I'm joking.

No but really....The answer to your question was layed out very well in the post above mine IMO with the fact that you have a bigger "gap" to cover to match the engine speed to road speed going from second to first...so that's why you are having to "force" the gear....you solution to your question is that you probably have REV UP the engine speed by blipping the throttle MORE to match road and engine speed in FIRST gear.

Have you noticed your RPM's going into the turn in 2nd gear at 35mph? When you are commanding the bike to give you more power, how MUCH throttle are you rolling on at exit? B/c if you are taking a turn in FIRST gear than you pretty much damn near came to a STOP to make that turn...

At 35mph in 2nd you should have ample power coming out....i.e. when you downshift your RPMs typically GO UP into power (until your roadspeed has dropped) to take the power out of that gear....(reverse if upshifting...power down until road speed rises into power)...

What do you ride? (just asking to get an idea of your powerband)


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Last edited by TalkofDC; April 18, 2011 at 03:31 PM..
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April 18, 2011, 03:38 PM

Ronin said it best. If you ride aggressive enough to warrant first gear out of a corner on the street I would recommend just changing to a much more aggressive gearing and keep it in second. If that's too much work/money you can just rev match but the bike will most likely be really snappy in first which would make the bike more susceptible to "upsetting" that you were talking about.


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April 18, 2011, 03:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by turkishexpress View Post
Ronin said it best. If you ride aggressive enough to warrant first gear out of a corner on the street I would recommend just changing to a much more aggressive gearing and keep it in second. If that's too much work/money you can just rev match but the bike will most likely be really snappy in first which would make the bike more susceptible to "upsetting" that you were talking about.


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April 18, 2011, 03:49 PM

Well let's not "assume" that he is riding THAT aggressively to take a corner in first....b/c really he could be just going THAT slow??? who knows.

I guess my point is before you start changing gearing etc UNDERSTAND what and why your bike is doing what it's doing....versus just "upgrading" something and it doesn't do it anymore....

maybe I'm just overanalyzing it...


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April 18, 2011, 04:11 PM

The noise I think you are referring to is normal, I've come across that noise as well when I'm putting my bike into second anywhere near 20mph, but thats only when I'm coming to a stop. I RARELY use 1st other than to start from a stop (or going DEAD slow). I think most people and racers alike only use 1st gear for that matter, I haven't really heard of people going into turns (on track or off) in 1st gear.
If that's the case, then they usually end up re-gearing their bike, which applies more to the people racing or doing trackdays, just my $0.02


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April 18, 2011, 04:27 PM

I go to from a 35mph road to a 25 mph road turning 90 degrees .. with stock gearing I have to go to 1st gear or else I feel like free wheeling (not good) .. also I like to use the engine braking incase of a pedestrian/oncoming car(street is very narrow) when I am entering the turn .. somedays I dont get it right and do get the lurch forward or the squirelly rear but never was it too bad to use the slipper


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