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Most users ever online was 4,519, September 2, 2015 at 03:26 AM.
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Group Riding Tips
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  (#1)
I'm a Rookie, How do I Wheelie?
 
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Group Riding Tips - August 30, 2007, 03:50 PM

The main reason why I dont ride in groups is that I dont really know how to ride in a group. I dont want to endanger any other riders. So could you tell me how to ride in a group?

Also are there any unwritten etiquette rules, like "Don't give anyone the finger who rides too slow"?
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August 30, 2007, 05:02 PM

That's actually a really good question. I am sure there will be a ton of answers... but I would say if you are new to riding in a group, you should probably state that before the ride begins...have them go over signals that they use...don't follow too closely- give yourself enough space. Don't ride over your limits...and if you don't feel comfortable in a ride... leave. Don't worry about looking like a comp out by leaving. If you aren't up to it, fcuk them.


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August 30, 2007, 05:19 PM

Objective (i.e. the law): Don't lane share with other bikes. You may choose to, if a rider specifically waves you by, but make sure there are no cops watching.

Subjective (i.e. opinion): Some riders follow very close. You do not have follow close. I prefer to not follow close, and I don't like riders following close to me. I want to be able to use the entire lane if I need to without constantly checking to see where the bike behind me is at, and I want to be able to stop on a dime without someone running up my backside.


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August 30, 2007, 05:26 PM

i would say the most important thing is:

RIDE YOUR RIDE - meaning - if the ppl in the group is faster than u.. dont try to follow them.. ride at your own pace.. wat u feel comfortable doing ..if it's a good leader.. he/she will wait for everyone at the next turn/stopsign..

there are more.. but i'm sure eveyrone else will say it
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September 17, 2007, 02:55 PM

it's best to ride staggered in medium-large groups.

it is legal in MD to lane share... as long as you don't go past the original vehicle. in VA it is illegal. but like said before, the best option especially at considerable speeds is to have the whole lane available to you

another tip is to be very careful of your speed throughout a turn... going to slow or using a lot of brake could cause problems for the riders behind you who are probably leaning too. going too fast would be bad news for you of course


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September 17, 2007, 03:18 PM

If you're not sure what is OK and what is not, stay in the back and observe to see what others are doing.

Different groups have different rules. Some don't mind lanesharing, some dont care for riding staggered, some don't care about stunting, some don't pass on double yellow, etc. Depending on the group you get, you may either get bitched out in person, or afterwards on the forum, for doing one thing or another. So I would recommend staying in the back, observing, and getting a feel for what is OK to do.

In general, 1) keep good/safe following distance, 2) allow others to pass you if they are on your ass in the turns, 3) ride staggered, and 4) keep aggressive riding that affects others to a minimum (especially with passing).

I think ultimately you will find group riding rewarding and fun. It adds a social aspect to riding and it's always cool to meet people who share your interests.

Lastly, if you don't like how some people ride on your first group ride don't let that turn you off completely from group rides. Different kinds of rides bring different kinds of riders and group dynamics. Some are more squidly than others.
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September 17, 2007, 03:26 PM

Here is angry bob's take on some of the attitude involved in group riding as opposed to the technical points....might be worth a read for you before you head out..

Group Riding: Part 1 - Choose Your Riders Wisely

Tuesday, July 26th, 2005 at 8:20 pm by angrybob
This is Part 1 of a series dedicated to dissecting “Group Riding” with the emphasis being on sport bikes and sport riding. Please note that I am (now) sensitive to the growing female rider population and when I use “him”, “his”, or “guy” only, it is solely because I suck at typing. Please consider those terms not gender specific.

To kick off this series on Group Riding, I figure it makes sense to start with the most important: Choosing Your Riders. I use the word CHOOSE purposely because there should be a conscious choice made for the group you ride along side. In that are two key characteristics I look for when I choose people to ride with - Humble & Smart.

Sidebar #1 - Still Meet People:
I am in no way suggesting that you only ride with people you know prior. I have met some of the best riders by simply hooking up for a ride. My suggestion is to use the Reaganesque “Trust but Verify” philosophy. I’ll ride with anyone once. Afterwards, I choose to ride with them again. End Sidebar #1

HUMBLE

This falls right into being a smart rider, but is so important that it deserves more depth. Having humility when you’re riding is essential, but difficult given the potential ‘red mist’ lurking around the next corner. Being able to admit to yourself that there is always, ALWAYS someone faster than you is vital to being humble. There is no doubt that being passed in the mountains is a blow to the Rossi in all of us, but as we all saw in the ‘05 Laguna Seca MotoGP, even Rossi ‘knows when to say when’. Even worse is when a guy on a ‘86 Nighthawk 650 blows by you. Bottom line - it happens.

There is no worse reaction to being passed then to exceed your limits trying to hang with the faster guy. That is not to say trying to hang for a turn or two to learn his line, etc. and backing off at your limit is a bad thing. Its when you ride over your ability due to insult that usually results in poor judgment and in many cases a wreck. Remember, there is no checkered flag or Umbrella Girls with champagne at the end of your favorite road. If you absolutely need something to race, try the clock.

Similarly, allowing yourself to be ‘pushed’ by a faster rider behind you is equally as dangerous (actually…probably more dangerous). The reasons for doing so are the same: ego. The result is less concentration on what’s ahead and more on what’s behind you. Aside from police, nothing behind you matters as far as your head is concerned. The only time I ever check my mirrors is when I hear someone else’s exhaust or sirens - I pull to the side for both. Again, its hard to do, but if you have a guy faster than you on your heels, wave ‘em by. You will have a better ride and they will too.

RULE #1: There is always someone faster than you. If they pass you at speed, let them go. If they push you from behind, let them by. Do this and everyone involved will have a better, safer ride.

The second part to being humble is not talking smack around the campfire. I say this tongue and cheek because of my Northern Georgia riding days at the Two Wheels Only Motorcycle Resort in Suches, GA. I always took the approach of the fly on the wall when groups were meeting for the first time over a beer and a blaze. At the end of the first night, I knew who was going to crash by the week’s end…and my predictions were pretty accurate. When you talk crap, you set expectations (likely false). If you need to set false expectations to impress others, chances are you lack the humility to either let faster guys go or let faster guys by.

RULE #2: Leave the trash talking and self-promoting to the NBA. Even though all of us are world champions in our own mind, take that to the grave. Creating false impressions / expectations is a sure way to ride over your head and crash. Just think how cool you will look the next morning manning the tents as the rest of us leave.

The final part to my definition of humility is in regards to giving “riding faster” advice. In general, I try to avoid it. While everyone should help each other, we all have our own unique riding style, comfort, and ability. I do not want to be responsible for giving advice that is too advanced or beyond the rider’s comfort zone. Generic things like vision improvement (looking through the turn) for someone who is looking directly in front of the bike are great. Do so and guess what - they go faster without ever instructing them to go faster. On the other hand, “I think you should increase your entry speed into turns” is probably not good advice. Its always a case-by-case judgment when giving advice, especially when its usually sought by newbs. That is where great care is needed to consider their ability.

Rule #3: Leave the “riding faster” advice alone. Try and stick to the non-mechanical side of riding: vision, comfort, etc. If you really want to give performance advice, preach baby steps and emphasize their personal comfort zone. There is nothing worse then having a buddy crash because he was not ready to ride as fast as you both thought.


SMART

Given the choice of only one characteristic, I will take a smart rider over a fast one any day. A smart rider is the combination of many things: Humble, consistent, reliable, and yes…conservative among others. Even though each person’s definition is probably different, we all know what being a smart rider is. I spent almost a whole day on a sport bike road trip with a novice. She was smart. I knew that when we came to the tight stuff, I could disappear without regard for her well-being (in her control) because I knew she didn’t ride over her head. I’d wait at the end of the stretch, and every time she appeared…go figure. She rode very consistent and it made my ride more enjoyable by being worry-free.

A reliable rider can lead a group or follow. If you are leading a group, you must think for the group (stop at major turns, etc). If you are not leading, don’t think…just follow. A smart group will already have the faster guys out front so nobody’s ride is bogarted by lapped traffic. It is that simple.
Reliability is also an issue that deals with the man and machine separately. I am picky when it comes to this: Do we need to stop for a smoke or bathroom break every 45 minutes? Is everyone’s bike in good running condition? There is no bigger buzz-kill then riding with a guy who knowingly has a faulty or even questionable bike. Being roadside with the limited tools / options is no fun for anyone. Multiply the downtime by the number of people to get the true lost riding time.

And finally, smart riders should be a little conservative. Quite often on road trips, new twisties are discovered and the ‘lap’ record shouldn’t be attempted the first time through. This idea also includes the routine (read: all the time) top speed runs on the longer straightaways between turns, passing on the blind double yellow, multi-gear wheelies, and all the other unnecessaries that draw unwanted attention to the group.

RULE #4: Each person has to figure out what a SMART rider is (at least include the above definition of humble) and surround yourself by them. Your group will have high quality, trouble free rides and trips likely without any surprises.


Sidebar #2 - Expanding Your Group:
I can provide two pieces of advice from my experiences in group riding. It is probably best to introduce new guys one at a time to your group if possible. One person can be managed fairly easy and its the best way to see if he ‘plays well with others’.
Second, take it from my firsthand experience, but not everyone on a forum is as they seem. The real version of a forum member (or whatever) does not always meet expectations of the perceived electronic version. If at all possible, ride with him prior to taking a road trip together regardless of how well you get along online. Ask me how I know. End Sidebar #2

Sidebar #3 - Riding With Racers:
I will probably take some heat for this, but not all racers are good in the mountains. I often find that their track experience and technique(s) aren’t practical for the street. For example, trail-braking is great for the track, but it takes better judgment and more reservation on the street because you have fewer alternate options if you overcook a turn. Second, throw some obstacles at a track guy, and often they cannot cope. Have a bus cross a double yellow with the back end, have a blind decreasing radius turn thrown at you, have a boulder in the middle of the road. Tracks do not have unknowns after the first lap ot two, that cannot be said for the mountian twisties where all that is in sight is part of the next turn. And finally, by the very nature of racing, “racers” are fast. The problem is that they know it…and too often need to prove it. See the definition of Humble. End Sidebar #3


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September 17, 2007, 05:02 PM

.The Art of the Group Ride....do you remember? ***Recently a comment was made on another forum that inspired me to make this post. Please know that this is not aimed at anybody or group. It is something that has been on my mind for a while, but only now feel like I want to say something.*** Thus begins........

"THE ART OF THE GROUP RIDE"......Do you remember when:

I have watched this site grow and grow over the 4+ years I have been an active member. People join to find freinds and meet people to ride with. I think this is a fantastic forum to do this on, but I often wonder if we are making the forum do the work for us, instead of us doing the work for the forum. I regress....

A long Long time ago, at a Multiplex not so far away, there used to be a group of people that showed up on Sunday mornings to go on rides with each other. We had a leader name Rronin. We didn't go knowing what the route was, or what the pace was going to be. We just knew we were riding and it was fun. We trusted in our leader that nobody was going to be left behind, and at the end of the day he would all get us back to where we started. We would bring our freinds or tell people that we would meet about these rides and the tell them they could confirm the ride time on a site called DC Sportbikes.NET.

Those rides grew and grew in size and Rronin being the leader that he was still lead those rides down those mystery roads, often only known to him, but soon he found it necessary to start breaking us into smaller groups to avoid the police hassle and make the red lights. At that stage he started asking some of the better riders to keep an eye out for the less experienced riders. Often under his breath, as not to embarrass or appear to be looking down on people. We all knew he had our backs. It was a simple formula, and those were the best rides of my life. I don't believe he ever intended to become our leader I think, he just had that "I am riding, You wanna come" attitude.

I guess the point I am making is I think we have overcomplicated the Group ride. We now debate times, pace, who's meeting who to ride to the meeting point. Who is leading? What is the route, etc? all before a key is even put in an ignition or a helmet is ever put on? Does this REALLY matter that much, or do you just want to ride? Now please know that I understand this is needed for some of you guys that are doing "Burn the village & rape the children" rail rides. I also understand the need for this on the Magic-Rat Noob rides, as they are handled as more as a training experience. Those type of rides kind of need to be pre-planned and I think we do this well. But what about all the other rides that people are craving?.....

I guess my question is....Do we look to the site to often for leadership? What happened to all the leaders? Why not become one? Who cares if only a couple people show up to ride? Who cares if you have the perfect route? We've all gotten turned around. Just ride! I can remember Rronin rides with 4 people and some with 40 people. He didn't care. he just rode and whoever followed him was fine. If we got lost, we did a U-Turn...that is the reason it is part of the road test for your M- Class

So In conclusion I ask you this one final question?.....What ever happened to the "Art of the simple group ride"? People just picking a spot and agreeing (not debating) on a time, grabbing some freinds and meeting up. The route can be decided as you go. That makes it fun. Bring friends that aren't on the site and let them become a member. That's how DCSBN began and grew into the community we now are.

It was once just about the fun.......................


Happy Riding!

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Last edited by GUZZLER : June 7, 2007 at 11:14 AM.


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It was me.
 
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September 17, 2007, 07:58 PM

I just wanted to say that out of all the tips I have been given the one that improved my cornering the most was.... When entering a turn you are not too familiar with, keep your bike in a low gear like third, that way if you are going too fast you just let off the throtle and the engine will slow you down. As you know braking hard in a turn can cause your bike to stand up and fall or skid out. Thanks Johnny. And the most important tip of all as mentioned above..... Ride your own ride.


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September 18, 2007, 12:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DRAGULA

I guess the point I am making is I think we have overcomplicated the Group ride. We now debate times, pace, who's meeting who to ride to the meeting point. Who is leading? What is the route, etc? all before a key is even put in an ignition or a helmet is ever put on? Does this REALLY matter that much, or do you just want to ride? .
This is all wrong. The more information you give on a ride, the better. If you want to chill, pick a chill ride; if you want to sightsee, pick a sightseeing ride; if you want to rail, pick a kneedragging ride, if you want to stunt, etc. So it's good to know what's going on beforehand. Nothing sucks more than going to someone's ride at 9am thinking it will be an all day event only to realize the leader just wants to cruise for 2 hours and be back home before noon. Or that they want to go to 211 and do 10 runs up and down the mountain. Same goes for pace, etc.

So if you post a ride, provide as much info as you can. This way, there are no surprises and everyone is on the same page. This makes the ride safer, more predictable, and minimizes chaos that you will get when everyone shows up with different expectations.
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December 25, 2007, 11:18 AM

GROUP RIDING ETIQUETTE

http://www.sevacycles.com/smf/index.php?topic=138.0


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December 26, 2007, 10:12 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch
Sidebar #3 - Riding With Racers: I will probably take some heat for this, but not all racers are good in the mountains. I often find that their track experience and technique(s) aren’t practical for the street. For example, trail-braking is great for the track, but it takes better judgment and more reservation on the street because you have fewer alternate options if you overcook a turn. Second, throw some obstacles at a track guy, and often they cannot cope. Have a bus cross a double yellow with the back end, have a blind decreasing radius turn thrown at you, have a boulder in the middle of the road. Tracks do not have unknowns after the first lap ot two, that cannot be said for the mountian twisties where all that is in sight is part of the next turn. And finally, by the very nature of racing, “racers” are fast. The problem is that they know it…and too often need to prove it. See the definition of Humble. End Sidebar #3
I made bold the part I agree with. Respectfully, the rest is just silly.
I prefer riding with racers, partly to keep the pace up, but the bigger reason is because it's a lot safer. Racing experience increases skill. A rider's ego must be kept in check, and racing experience does that for most. It's the street riders who usually have no real awareness or measure of their skills. As racers, generally we know our abilities better than most, because it's evident in the extreme circumstances that racing presents to every rider. Obstacles are of the expected and unexpected kind in almost every race.

You find that 'their track experience and techniques aren't practical for the street'? Sure, when it comes to leaning way off for turns, and entry lines, etc. But trail braking is something EVERYONE should learn how to do.

'Track guys can't cope with obstacles'? You must be kidding. I concede that they might be lulled into complacency more easily because the pace isn't challenging compared to racing. I guess it's possible that racers may not be 'expecting' the boulder like a street rider might. But I'm betting the racer is generally more equipped and adept at avoiding it.

Racers are fast, and they know it? Perhaps, but they have the track to prove it. On the street, racers are able to relax and ride safely at a pace most street riders can't. The racetrack sorts us out quickly, and unlike the measure of street riders, our results are in black and white at the end of each event. I can't tell you how many times I've ridden at 7 tenths on the street when some street guy was riding at 110% behind me thinking we were racing. Then he's pissy with me at the next stop for riding the way I know I can ride safely? Racers aren't crashing on the street. It's street riders, dude.

I've also had the experience of a street rider passing me on a curvy road. It hasn't happened to me often, but it's happened. Because he's faster? Maybe. Honestly, I don't know. Racers like me know he was probably taking too large a risk on a public road for his bike, the conditions, or maybe even his ability. Then again, he might have just been faster than me. I've never bothered to try to find-out, but it sounds like you have.


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December 26, 2007, 11:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevmo
i would say the most important thing is:

RIDE YOUR RIDE - meaning - if the ppl in the group is faster than u.. dont try to follow them.. ride at your own pace.. wat u feel comfortable doing ..if it's a good leader.. he/she will wait for everyone at the next turn/stopsign..
Good advice! Every single wreck I have witnessed on a group ride was caused by the rider being in way over their heads...even after being warned.

Ride your own ride, don't ride with people who are wreckless...and give yourself space in case anything unexpected comes up.

Most of all...have fun!


Chris
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December 26, 2007, 11:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch
Sidebar #3 - Riding With Racers: I will probably take some heat for this, but not all racers are good in the mountains. I often find that their track experience and technique(s) aren’t practical for the street. For example, trail-braking is great for the track, but it takes better judgment and more reservation on the street because you have fewer alternate options if you overcook a turn. Second, throw some obstacles at a track guy, and often they cannot cope. Have a bus cross a double yellow with the back end, have a blind decreasing radius turn thrown at you, have a boulder in the middle of the road. Tracks do not have unknowns after the first lap ot two, that cannot be said for the mountian twisties where all that is in sight is part of the next turn. And finally, by the very nature of racing, “racers” are fast. The problem is that they know it…and too often need to prove it. See the definition of Humble. End Sidebar #3
Um yeah...whoever wrote that hasn't ridden with any actual racers. If anything every single racer I know tends to be far more conservative on the street compared to how they ride on the track.

That and the fact that most racers train in not only pavement but dirt, supermoto, etc...so they can ride pretty much anything. As far as proving they're fast? I mean are you serious...the person writing this had no clue IMO...not sure what type of racing he's talking about but it sounds as if he rode with a wanna be racer or someone who said they race when in fact they don't.

Rule is simple...racers don't care about their pace on the street for two simple reasons.
1. No points on the street
2. No trophies

Street is for fun...if you're out to prove how fast you are by pushing your limits on the street you're asking for trouble.


Chris
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December 26, 2007, 11:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by deviousR6
Rule is simple...racers don't care about their pace on the street for two simple reasons.
1. No points on the street
2. No trophies

Street is for fun...if you're out to prove how fast you are by pushing your limits on the street you're asking for trouble.
Geez, tell that to the straightline wimps


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