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davidcycle
Most users ever online was 4,519, September 2, 2015 at 03:26 AM.
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How fast can you stop?
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How fast can you stop? - April 21, 2008, 10:03 PM

Wrote this for a PM to a student and figured Iíd leverage the time and post it here too.

Homework assignment:

Practice counting 4 seconds at different speeds. Once youíve calibrated your eyes to pick reference points 4 seconds out, think about how hard you would have to brake to stop before them. Could you stop in time? Now you have a benchmark for practicing your braking in a parking lot. We did low speeds (about 25) and thatís good to start, but a bigger lot and higher speeds will get you more real world safety margin. It will be scary to approach the bikeís braking limit but I think you can work your way up to 80% without borrowing someoneís balls. That will put you way above average. (most people donít practice)


Caveats:
The 4 seconds as a benchmark for total stopping distance doesnít mean it is great braking performance. Itís some kind of average that MSF came up with, no doubt based on research.

Assumes ďidealĒ (traction) conditions.


All the well practiced hard braking skills in the world do no good if you PANIC when it gets REAL and snatch too much too quick. Once youíre comfortable with how hard you can brake (and are no longer trying to work it down closer to the limit) simulate emergencies in your mind. This is not easy, and may take having a friend throw stop signals out for you.

In fact, Simulated Emergency is not just for braking practice. Weird as it may sound, I think it is possible to train yourself not to panic by running through what if scenarios when you ride. Not to be confused with the constant planning of escape routes (which GREATLY reduce the potential for panic situations). What I mean is really seeing yourself headed straight into that Buick, going through all the control movements (in your mind) to make the save and FEELING what it would be like.


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April 21, 2008, 10:21 PM

I have nightmares about not being able to stop in time for an unexpected hazard in the road, usually a stopped car. Seriously, and this was even before I had this exact scenario play out last year.

Thanks for the reminder to take the new bike out to the MSF range just down the road from my house for some practice. What's funny is that when I go there to practice hard stops and slow maneuvers, there's usually at least one person who stops to watch, probably expecting me to bust out some wheelies and stoppies. Nope, sorry, not this klutz.


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April 21, 2008, 10:37 PM

This is one of the things I have to work on .. but every time I have to brake I clutch in and there is that momentary feeling of accelaration ( due to engine dis..) and then start braking .. do you guys brake and then clutch in?
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April 21, 2008, 10:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DEEP
.. do you guys brake and then clutch in?
Yes, it's all at the dame time really, but brakes are the first order of business.


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April 21, 2008, 10:57 PM

I was doing this recently, got to the point where i was floating my rear end up a little bit without knowing :/

but great advice, I hadn't ever heard of the 4 second thing


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April 22, 2008, 07:35 AM

Great post Jim...something I learned from reading the MSF and Proficient Motorcycling before I threw a leg over a bike is not to ride faster than you can brake. Those bits of wisdom have saved my ass countless times.


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April 22, 2008, 07:40 AM

I thought this thread was about sex


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April 22, 2008, 07:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DEEP
This is one of the things I have to work on .. but every time I have to brake I clutch in and there is that momentary feeling of accelaration ( due to engine dis..) and then start braking .. do you guys brake and then clutch in?
If you don't hold the clutch in when stopping in an emergency, the bike will either stall out or keep on bucking.

Awesome write up Jim. I've learned how fast I can stop.

Jim--- How would you teach someone to use the rear brakes more often?

I know when I first started to ride, I never used the rear brakes at all. Now I used them in everyday riding, at the race track, on the street, etc...

I think using the rear brakes also helps in knowing how fast you can stop.
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April 22, 2008, 07:50 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by deviousR6
Great post Jim...something I learned from reading the MSF and Proficient Motorcycling before I threw a leg over a bike is not to ride faster than you can brake. Those bits of wisdom have saved my ass countless times.
Yep, . Sudden yellow lights seem like a major hazard until you slow down to within say 5 to 10 over. I slow down to the limit for all intersections, even the ones I know will stay green for me. Never know what a negligent cager is capable of. Also, give yourself some extra braking distance at an intersection because there's usually more greasey stuff near the crosswalks from all the poorly maintained cages that sit there at red lights and drip onto the pavement, especially in the middle of the lanes.


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April 22, 2008, 07:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnage
If you don't hold the clutch in when stopping in an emergency, the bike will either stall out or keep on bucking.

Awesome write up Jim. I've learned how fast I can stop.

Jim--- How would you teach someone to use the rear brakes more often?

I know when I first started to ride, I never used the rear brakes at all. Now I used them in everyday riding, at the race track, on the street, etc...

I think using the rear brakes also helps in knowing how fast you can stop.
If you're using your rear brake you need to be mindful of the amount of load percentage when it comes to front weight bias VS rear weight bias.

As you load the front the ratio of rear brake must decrease to compensate for the decreased load on the rear tire. Othewise, you'll end up with a rear tire skid which will not help you.

I've only seen you ride on the track once so I can't really offer any advice there.


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April 22, 2008, 07:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by deviousR6
If you're using your rear brake you need to be mindful of the amount of load percentage when it comes to front weight bias VS rear weight bias.

As you load the front the ratio of rear brake must decrease to compensate for the decreased load on the rear tire. Othewise, you'll end up with a rear tire skid which will not help you.

I've only seen you ride on the track once so I can't really offer any advice there.
LOL! It's not for me. I use the rear brake before turn 1 and 5 at Summit Main, I love doing the wobble wobble and shakey shakey. I'm doing the asking for those that might be shy to ask.
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April 22, 2008, 08:05 AM

I think the 4 seconds comes from the average time for a human to recognise a situation and begin to react. When I was in pilot training they were very vocal about the reaction time issue. It isn't the time from deciding to act to acting, but the time from the mind first detecting something abnormal thru the mental evaluation to identify what the problem is, decide what should be done, and start doing it. . Most people don't consider the first part of that chain when evaluating their reaction time. We used three seconds as the minimum reaction time when discussing emergency procedures, and that was for young, highy motivated guys with excellent training and good eyesight. I thought it was too long at first, but over the years concluded it was about right. The long pole in the tent is recognition of a problem, not the time to squeeze the handle! For braking on a bike, the means that period of "is he gonna stop, oh s__t, he isn't I better start braking" the everyone goes thru, whether they recognise it or not!
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April 22, 2008, 08:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnage
LOL! It's not for me. I use the rear brake before turn 1 and 5 at Summit Main, I love doing the wobble wobble and shakey shakey. I'm doing the asking for those that might be shy to ask.
OK


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April 22, 2008, 08:34 AM

Great post Jim!


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April 22, 2008, 04:23 PM

Me <---Practice, practice, practice... then, some more practice. repeat.

Thanks Jim!!


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