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  (#1)
DT
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Join Date: June 24, 2004
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August 23, 2004, 01:41 PM

As I've been riding with more people, I'm noticing that I tend to lean over a hell of a lot more in curves than the other riders I am riding with. From what I can tell during the discussions afterwards is that we are within 5 to 10 miles of difference in speed and they're obviously going faster than I am.

I understand that the more lean, the less contact, the less options should something go wrong - however, I'm finding that my lean angle is what I need to make it through the turn. However, when riding with Devious, he was taking curves at the same speeds, I was just leaned over more.

My lines might be all wrong - that and inexperience - was just wondering if anyone else experienced this when they were new and what they did to "fix" it.

I can't imagine too much difference in the 600cc class, so it must be me who needs adjusting.

The other thing is - obviously when hanging off of the bike, the lean is a lot less than when I stay on top of her. Just wondering if I'm doing anything wrong.


04 600RR - SOLD

"I am a soldier, I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight."
- General George Patton Jr
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  (#2)
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August 23, 2004, 01:52 PM

You seemed to ask an honest question, so I think it deserves an honest answer. It's just my opinion, but I've raced for five years before taking this year off... and I don't crash. You're right. You leave yourself less room for error or mishap. My suggestion would be to experiment with hanging-off more. You can't lean like that in the rain, and I'd hate to hear that you got hurt and it was preventable. Try a body position for less-than-optimal traction at similar speeds. You might find yourself actually getting faster thru the turns. There are different riding styles that are equally fast, but it depends on the person. So, if I assume you've been at extreme lean angles, but similar speeds to your more upright buddies, I think you've been very lucky that your tires have not let you down. Hope it doesn't happen, but I'd be careful and try hanging-off a bit more when you're railing.


Johnny V.
CCS & ASRA #67

2006 Suzuki GSX-R1000
2004 Suzuki GSX-R600 (racing)
2004 Aprilia 1000 Mille R (street)
2001 Aprilia 1000 Falco (street)
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1995 Kawasaki ZX-6E (street and racing)
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  (#3)
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August 23, 2004, 02:55 PM

Excellent question and answer!!! Why didn't you ask this one sooner, Chris?



-Long
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  (#4)
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August 23, 2004, 03:02 PM

While riding how do you know how far you are leaned over compared to someone else?

I don't know how much I'm leaning until I see pictures or I'm dragging parts that the other guy isn't (and only if he's on the same bike with a similar setup).

If it's not just your perception, then changing your body position is what you need to do.


'08 MARRC Expert Racer of the Year
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DT
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August 23, 2004, 03:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVbadguy
While riding how do you know how far you are leaned over compared to someone else?

I don't know how much I'm leaning until I see pictures or I'm dragging parts that the other guy isn't (and only if he's on the same bike with a similar setup).

If it's not just your perception, then changing your body position is what you need to do.
Good point. While riding with Gixxer600, we took an exit ramp up in Maryland (on the way to B&N). I was not hanging off of the bike and I dragged the outward edge of my boot. I think after reviewing the comments so far - I'm leaning over a lot further than I need to be which is obviously unsafe. JP and SV, after reviewing your comments so far, I obviously need an experienced rider to ride behind be and see if I am doing anything wrong.

Also - after reading the post about dragging your knee on the street - the pros and cons, I probably need to start hanging off?? Then again am I even riding fast enough to do this???

I guess the only thing to do here is to hook up with an experienced rider and see what's going on.


04 600RR - SOLD

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  (#6)
DT
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August 23, 2004, 03:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by johanwanderer
Excellent question and answer!!! Why didn't you ask this one sooner, Chris?

'cause I'm a newb Long


04 600RR - SOLD

"I am a soldier, I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight."
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Mr. Glass
 
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August 23, 2004, 03:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DT
I was not hanging off of the bike and I dragged the outward edge of my boot.
yo homie.. put or toes or balls of your feet on the pegs.. and you wont drag boots then just pegs

plus it sets you up in a better body position for goin in to corners.. and helps in hanging off cause you can do it alot more smoothly

call me ya got my number.. ill show ya some stuff. and ill letcha borrow a great book by keith code, which im sure Travis (svbadguy) gives the thumbs up to. It will teach ya a lil more in depth... and with some seat time w/ you and I one on one.. you will be that much more confident


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi
dressing up like a fruity gangster and going to Sterling, that is like wearing a tuxedo just to go to the bathroom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi
Buying a sportbike to go the speed limit (which you do not do in your car) is like buying a condom to look at it.

Do you buy a condom to look at it? No you buy it to fuck.
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  (#8)
Licensed Rider
 
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August 23, 2004, 03:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by screaminZX6R
Quote:
Originally Posted by DT
I was not hanging off of the bike and I dragged the outward edge of my boot.
yo homie.. put or toes or balls of your feet on the pegs.. and you wont drag boots then just pegs

plus it sets you up in a better body position for goin in to corners.. and helps in hanging off cause you can do it alot more smoothly

call me ya got my number.. ill show ya some stuff. and ill letcha borrow a great book by keith code, which im sure Travis (svbadguy) gives the thumbs up to. It will teach ya a lil more in depth... and with some seat time w/ you and I one on one.. you will be that much more confident
Chris you must of been reading my mind as i had a similar question.

what's the name of the book?


Tom

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WPNR
 
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August 23, 2004, 03:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DT

I was not hanging off of the bike and I dragged the outward edge of my boot. I think after reviewing the comments so far - I'm leaning over a lot further than I need to be which is obviously unsafe. JP and SV, after reviewing your comments so far.
Yes pick those feet up. I dont think Travis and John are saying not to lean. I believe that we think you are leaning the bike to much and not your body enough. When you lean your body at more of an angle the bike wont have to lean as much to make the turn, inturn gives you more clearance. Correct me if im wrong guys.


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  (#10)
DT
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August 23, 2004, 03:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phife03R6
Quote:
Originally Posted by DT

I was not hanging off of the bike and I dragged the outward edge of my boot. I think after reviewing the comments so far - I'm leaning over a lot further than I need to be which is obviously unsafe. JP and SV, after reviewing your comments so far.
Yes pick those feet up. I dont think Travis and John are saying not to lean. I believe that we think you are leaning the bike to much and not your body enough. When you lean your body at more of an angle the bike wont have to lean as much to make the turn, inturn gives you more clearance. Correct me if im wrong guys.
(Really need to start reading more)

Bear with me guys physics was never my thing -

So if you lean off - it helps take the lean off of the bike because the weight is now redistributed off of the bike and the center of gravity is now changed, allowing the bike less lean ergo more tire contact with the road, better traction and more control?? If that's right then it makes sense.


04 600RR - SOLD

"I am a soldier, I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight."
- General George Patton Jr
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Mr. Glass
 
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August 23, 2004, 04:05 PM

Here is the List of the Sport Riding BIBLES in order you should read them..

TWIST OF THE WRIST I
TWIST OF THE WRIST II
SOFT SCIENCE ROAD RACING*

*this is a "cornering workbook" its awesome.. walks you through and completely questions your whole cornering technique.. its really helpful.. taught me all about all the proper lines to following..


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi
dressing up like a fruity gangster and going to Sterling, that is like wearing a tuxedo just to go to the bathroom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi
Buying a sportbike to go the speed limit (which you do not do in your car) is like buying a condom to look at it.

Do you buy a condom to look at it? No you buy it to fuck.
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Mr. Glass
 
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August 23, 2004, 04:07 PM

i forgot to add... all these fine workbooks are by KEITH CODE


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________________________
|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|*||__
|- TEAM MONSTER ENERGY -|*||'|";\,___.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi
dressing up like a fruity gangster and going to Sterling, that is like wearing a tuxedo just to go to the bathroom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi
Buying a sportbike to go the speed limit (which you do not do in your car) is like buying a condom to look at it.

Do you buy a condom to look at it? No you buy it to fuck.
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  (#13)
( * )|( * )
 
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August 23, 2004, 04:10 PM

I've been trying to work on lines through a turn so that I "straighten" the turn as much as possible. The only time I've leaned over quite a bit is on a long sweeper or an exit ramp. Actually, today I was with Kepi and I leaned the bike over quite a bit but I was off the seat so that half my butt was on it with my knee out towards the inside of the curve.

I like following some of the more experienced riders but...often I cannot keep up the pace so I back off.

Chris...I think a track day would probably help both of us out with lean angles and lines, the nice thing is we'd get a control rider so that we'd learn the correct line.

I figure on the street I have to allow myself room for the unexpected so I take curves at a speed that allows me to correct if necessary.

Thanks for the tips guys...this is very helpful!

-Chris (the slow Chris)


Chris
2008 MARRC AM Racer of the Year
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Mr. Glass
 
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August 23, 2004, 04:25 PM

no prob.. im more than willing to go out on a ride and work on some stuff..


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http://twitter.com/azzman
________________________
|^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^|*||__
|- TEAM MONSTER ENERGY -|*||'|";\,___.
|_..._..._by_Kawasaki______|*||_|_|...,]|
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi
dressing up like a fruity gangster and going to Sterling, that is like wearing a tuxedo just to go to the bathroom.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi
Buying a sportbike to go the speed limit (which you do not do in your car) is like buying a condom to look at it.

Do you buy a condom to look at it? No you buy it to fuck.
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  (#15)
You meet the nicest
 
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Posts: 5,601
Join Date: June 3, 2003
Location: Alexandria
August 23, 2004, 04:38 PM

Given similar machine set up and body position, most likely you are turning in too early. This causes you to run wide on the corner exit and have to lean farther to compensate.

The key to being able to delay your turn in to the proper point is to get the bike leaned over faster with a heavier counter steering input. The general rule of thumb is; the faster you can get the bike leaned over, the less lean angle will be needed. (Particularly for turns of 90 deg or less)

This is all explained very well in Twist of the Wrist.

"Hanging off" is a minor consideration compared to correct cornering technique. It is possible to go QUITE fast without hanging off at all.

DT, you seem to be very serious about learning to ride well. I'd ride with you but my street bike just died (related post coming up). I'm an instructor for Cornerspeed (as well as MSF) and can say that school is right up your alley. You get the theory in the class room then go out and practice it on the track. A new date has just been added for Oct. 18. Love to see you there. Judging by your posts I'd say you are ready for the school. If you can't swing the coin for a school, get the ToW book, study and practice.

Jim


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