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  (#1)
DT
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January 4, 2005, 01:43 PM

Simple enough question I think - just can't seem to get it right.

Do you look "through the turn" before, after, or at the apex?? Or do you look the entire time and leave the rest to peripheral???


04 600RR - SOLD

"I am a soldier, I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight."
- General George Patton Jr
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  (#2)
Happiness Consultant
 
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January 4, 2005, 01:56 PM

always look up the road/track to where you wanna be going. never ride your front tire. its that simple.

word


DBR
#135, #47, Vega
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Will pay to see this
whatever henry's name is these days: jason, seriously, im going to kick your face in when I get back
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  (#3)
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January 4, 2005, 02:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DT
Simple enough question I think - just can't seem to get it right.

Do you look "through the turn" before, after, or at the apex?? Or do you look the entire time and leave the rest to peripheral???
Look "through the turn" the entire time using peripheral to guide you along.


Paul

ďIntellectual growth should commence at birth and cease only at death.Ē
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  (#4)
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January 4, 2005, 02:55 PM

You’re looking for the exit. Until you know where it is you don’t know where a good apex is. Lines through curves are computed backward from the exit.

You want to hit a certain spot on the track with the bike pointed in a certain direction (to optimize drive out and/or set up for the next turn). This tells you where the apex and turn-in points should be. On a road you may be more concerned with visibility and surface conditions.

Looking well down the road gives your brain the information needed (given some seat time) to compute good lines. Peripheral vision acts like a feedback loop to confirm your work.

What if you can’t see the exit?
On a track, more laps to memorize plus a good appreciation of the meaning of faith.
On a road you know well, slow down.
On a road you don’t know, slow down even more.



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January 4, 2005, 03:04 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by WKDBLD
Youíre looking for the exit. Until you know where it is you donít know where a good apex is. Lines through curves are computed backward from the exit.

You want to hit a certain spot on the track with the bike pointed in a certain direction (to optimize drive out and/or set up for the next turn). This tells you where the apex and turn-in points should be. On a road you may be more concerned with visibility and surface conditions.

Looking well down the road gives your brain the information needed (given some seat time) to compute good lines. Peripheral vision acts like a feedback loop to confirm your work.

What if you canít see the exit?
On a track, more laps to memorize plus a good appreciation of the meaning of faith.
On a road you know well, slow down.
On a road you donít know, slow down even more.

Jim is my fugging hero.


DBR
#135, #47, Vega
--
"Never contract friendship with a man that is not better than thyself." - Confucius

Will pay to see this
whatever henry's name is these days: jason, seriously, im going to kick your face in when I get back
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  (#6)
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January 4, 2005, 03:11 PM

Quote:
EduardoSuave
Posted: Jan 04, 2005 - 04:04 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim is my fugging hero.
+1


Tara
98 gsxr 750 - track
08 gsxr 750 - street
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I will face my fear ~ I will let it pass through me
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing....
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  (#7)
DT
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January 4, 2005, 03:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by WKDBLD
Youíre looking for the exit. Until you know where it is you donít know where a good apex is. Lines through curves are computed backward from the exit.

You want to hit a certain spot on the track with the bike pointed in a certain direction (to optimize drive out and/or set up for the next turn). This tells you where the apex and turn-in points should be. On a road you may be more concerned with visibility and surface conditions.

Looking well down the road gives your brain the information needed (given some seat time) to compute good lines. Peripheral vision acts like a feedback loop to confirm your work.

What if you canít see the exit?
On a track, more laps to memorize plus a good appreciation of the meaning of faith.
On a road you know well, slow down.
On a road you donít know, slow down even more.

Thanks Jim - answered a 4 month, 5 book question in about 30 seconds. Next time I'll save the money and time. I was doing it backwards.



04 600RR - SOLD

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  (#8)
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January 4, 2005, 04:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DT
Simple enough question I think - just can't seem to get it right.

Do you look "through the turn" before, after, or at the apex?? Or do you look the entire time and leave the rest to peripheral???
I could be wrong but what has been working for me is looking through the turn all of the time and using my peiphereal vision take care of path directly in front of the bike. This allows me to choose a later apex point giving me more entry speed and reducing the time I need to lean the bike over. Also, it helps with picking the exit point and getting on the throttle as soon as the line allows.

The further ahead you look, the more you slow things down allowing you to reduce the amount of steering inputs which lead to a faster corner speed. Again...I could be wrong but so far this has worked for me.

Then again...I am Mr. Slowpoke so experts please chime in!

-Chris


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  (#9)
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January 4, 2005, 05:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by deviousR6
I could be wrong but what has been working for me is looking through the turn all of the time and using my peiphereal vision take care of path directly in front of the bike.
Exactly

Quote:
This allows me to choose a later apex point giving me more entry speed and reducing the time I need to lean the bike over.
Do you mean the time the bike is leaned over or the time to get the bike leaned over?
Quote:
Also, it helps with picking the exit point and getting on the throttle as soon as the line allows.
Exactly
Quote:
The further ahead you look, the more you slow things down allowing you to reduce the amount of steering inputs which lead to a faster corner speed. Again...I could be wrong but so far this has worked for me.
You're not wrong


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January 4, 2005, 05:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by WKDBLD
Quote:
Originally Posted by deviousR6
I could be wrong but what has been working for me is looking through the turn all of the time and using my peiphereal vision take care of path directly in front of the bike.
Exactly

Quote:
This allows me to choose a later apex point giving me more entry speed and reducing the time I need to lean the bike over.
Do you mean the time the bike is leaned over or the time to get the bike leaned over?
Quote:
Also, it helps with picking the exit point and getting on the throttle as soon as the line allows.
Exactly
Quote:
The further ahead you look, the more you slow things down allowing you to reduce the amount of steering inputs which lead to a faster corner speed. Again...I could be wrong but so far this has worked for me.
You're not wrong
Thanks for the check up Jim! I didn't see your post until I replied..DOH!

As for your question, I guess what I was trying to point out is that a later entry in *some turns could result in less time spent leaned over. Not all turns such as DR type turns of course because, there we have no choice but to lean the bike over and stand it up as soon as the exit is in sight (again...depending on where you are in the turn)
I guess it's difficult to really describe since turns vary so much, I try to aim for reducing the amount of time that I have to lean the bike over because when the bike is leaned over, that means that my traction is reduced and I cannot accelerate as hard compared to when I'm standing the bike up. But as far as getting the bike leaned over, when I late apex, I tend to lean the bike in a little faster which allows for a later entry and more room for braking.
Hopefully, my wording is not confusing...and I love these types of topics because they allow me to verify whether or not I am heading in the right direction. Again...feel free to correct me if I'm wrong...input leads to improvement.

Thanks in advance!

-Chris


Chris
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  (#11)
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January 4, 2005, 06:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by WKDBLD
Youíre looking for the exit. Until you know where it is you donít know where a good apex is. Lines through curves are computed backward from the exit.

You want to hit a certain spot on the track with the bike pointed in a certain direction (to optimize drive out and/or set up for the next turn). This tells you where the apex and turn-in points should be. On a road you may be more concerned with visibility and surface conditions.

Looking well down the road gives your brain the information needed (given some seat time) to compute good lines. Peripheral vision acts like a feedback loop to confirm your work.

What if you canít see the exit?
On a track, more laps to memorize plus a good appreciation of the meaning of faith.
On a road you know well, slow down.
On a road you donít know, slow down even more.

Damn he's good!


Steve
2015 Yamaha R1
2011 Harley Electra Glide Limited
2009 Yamaha Zuma 125
2006 Honda CRF150F
2004 Honda CRF150F Monster
2003 Honda CRF 150F Mini-monster
www.cornerspeed.net
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January 4, 2005, 07:21 PM

I love ya too, Jim.


Johnny V.
CCS & ASRA #67

2006 Suzuki GSX-R1000
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  (#13)
DT
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January 4, 2005, 08:30 PM

Thanks for the tips again,

Chris - you didn't explain it to me the incorrectly the first time bro - I was just taking everything you stated and reversing it. Concentrating too much on the "apex" and reading from the entry point to the exit point instead of placing the exit as my priority and allowing the rest to be "change in the 10 dollar bill." Plus loosening up in the upper body - leaning more off the bike, and being smoother helps as well. I missed something here Chris, what was the other thing???

As for throttle control - much work needed there, make sure you hit me up this spring when you're rolling to work on throttle control. The parking garage top level is going to get it's workout this year I can promise you that, and Cornerspeed is looking more and more like a must next year.

B^tchin.


04 600RR - SOLD

"I am a soldier, I fight where I am told, and I win where I fight."
- General George Patton Jr
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  (#14)
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January 4, 2005, 08:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DT
Thanks for the tips again,

Chris - you didn't explain it to me the incorrectly the first time bro - I was just taking everything you stated and reversing it. Concentrating too much on the "apex" and reading from the entry point to the exit point instead of placing the exit as my priority and allowing the rest to be "change in the 10 dollar bill." Plus loosening up in the upper body - leaning more off the bike, and being smoother helps as well. I missed something here Chris, what was the other thing???

As for throttle control - much work needed there, make sure you hit me up this spring when you're rolling to work on throttle control. The parking garage top level is going to get it's workout this year I can promise you that, and Cornerspeed is looking more and more like a must next year.

B^tchin.
You did fine...you just need to ride your bike more than 1 mile per year....DOH! We'll meet up and I'll put some drawings which will explain what I'm talking about a bit better.

You should sign up for the April Cornerspeed...bunch of .net people will be going to that session...you can then whoop up on me in front of everyone!

Pick up Sport Rider Techniques, that book details everything discussed so far in this thread...and please keep asking questions...I could read and discuss these topics all day long.

WLKBLD, SteveZX9, JPVaccaro...these guys have forgotten more than I know about riding!


Chris
2008 MARRC AM Racer of the Year
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  (#15)
GP Champ
 
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January 4, 2005, 09:07 PM

Hope to see you out there on more rides next year DT. I'd take this opportunity of the nice weather we are having in January to continue to learn. Joplin is a great road to work on apex's and looking through corners, not a whole bunch of traffic and pretty close to your area. Also check out 610 right off Joplin. I hope this weather stays close to what it is now and I'll be out there on the new bike.


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