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CrazyMotorcycleGuy
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Dropping a tooth up front
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Knee Draggin!
 
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Question Dropping a tooth up front - August 11, 2010, 12:42 PM

I'm considering dropping a tooth on the front sprocket from stock. I was looking at Gearing Commander: Motorcycle Gear Ratio Calculator for Sprockets RPM Speed Chain and the thought of having more power (higher RPM) in third gear at around 80mph should help me on Summit Main as well as Thunderbolt.

Question.

The chain on the bike is fine, the rear sprocket is fine, however, should I change the chain and the rear sprocket or can I just change out the front sprocket and not worry about it?

I'm very interested in the technical reasons as to why it is ok or why it is not ok or even the "I did it, no problems".

Thanks!

07 GSXR 600 track bike.


08 GSXR 600 (track), 07 GSXR 600 (race), 07 DRZ 400SM
02 FZ1, 88 Honda Shadow VLX
99 HD Electra Glide Ultra Classic (Sold Dec 2010)
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August 11, 2010, 12:50 PM

Do it! I went -1 +2 on my zx6r and it's a little rough when I trying to cruse on the free way. My speedo is about 10% off now. All and all I like the extra torque. Try the -1 on the front, if you want more just change the back later.
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August 11, 2010, 01:04 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bogert View Post
Do it! I went -1 +2 on my zx6r and it's a little rough when I trying to cruse on the free way. My speedo is about 10% off now. All and all I like the extra torque. Try the -1 on the front, if you want more just change the back later.
Didn't really answer his question tho.


I'm no expert, but I would think that dropping a tooth in the front would be OK with reusing your current chain. As long as the chain is fresh, you might only need to adjust the rear axle a tiny bit further back than it should be to compensate for front sprocket. But I'm just pulling this info out of my ass.


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T.R.I.T.D.H
 
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August 11, 2010, 02:05 PM

Real technical

ANY time you replace a sprocket then you need to replace the chain b/c each sprocket has a "bite" into the chain or a wear pattern...so in order to fit properly you should change all....

Thant being said, sometimes chains outlast sprockets...especially if you have alum sprockets...other times it's the other way around....

It's kidna like people saying you should get your rotors turned whenever you replace your brakes on a car b/c the old pads had a fit to your rotor and the new pads need a fresh surface to make a new groove.

Also it's easier to change the rear sprocket (relatively...) so maybe just go +2 in the rear....I'm 85% sure that going -1 in the front = going +2 in rear....or you will get very similar results.


What do you value more? Life or Image?

"I don't ride, I usually just sit around wearing a tshirt and my icon back protector and talk shit about anyone who does not have a liter bike. That's how you can pick me out of a crowd. I also wear a red tophat."
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August 11, 2010, 02:23 PM

If $ is not a factor then change your chain and sprockets. A good gearing would be -1 front and +1 rear. They sell quick acceleration kits that could save you some money. The kit includes front and rear sprockets and the chain.
Every mechanic told me do chain and sprockets. Talkofdc is right
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T.R.I.T.D.H
 
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August 11, 2010, 02:31 PM

Quote:
Talkofdc is right
but to clairfy...i'm not advocating that you SHOULD change all 3 components...I'm just saying from a conservative technical standpoint....

if my chain busted right now today....I'd just replace the chain...somewill say by doing that I'd be decreasing the life of my chain by not doing all 3....but so be it.

I was just stating from a by the book reference first.


What do you value more? Life or Image?

"I don't ride, I usually just sit around wearing a tshirt and my icon back protector and talk shit about anyone who does not have a liter bike. That's how you can pick me out of a crowd. I also wear a red tophat."
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True Riyduh
 
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August 11, 2010, 02:35 PM

Greg'll tell you to change it all at the same time.... period. Greg's a good dude.

The general concept is, you'll wear out the "new" part prematurely when mixing it with "old" parts. Like what TalkofDC said above...

Yes, I know the concept is rather frustrating to have to fork out almost $200 for everything just because you'd like to give new gearing a try... "My chain is good... The rear sprocket isn't too bad... I just want to change out the rear sprocket with a new one. ...etc...."
Trust, I'm right there with ya. But it is what it is.... Gotta think "long run" with this one I guess.

Let me know when you plan to do the job by the way... I'd like to do mine at the same time if possible. Looking for the lowest price I can find on a new chain and front sprocket.


Oh, and to answer your question about the -1f... It's all "I" needed over stock! It's a significant enough difference to me on MAIN and Thunderbolt that I don't feel I "need" to at the +2 in the rear for additional drive....

And yes, the general consensus is -1 in the front = + 2 in the rear. You lose a bit of top end, but not really not TOO noticeable on Main or Thunderbolt... I don't THINK I quite hit the rev limiter in 6th on Main with -1f.... I am on a 750 though vs. your 600 so.... And of course in that scenario it's a question of "balls" too....

Anyway, with the -1f effect I'm not exactly pressed to ADD the +2rear which is pretty common... The -1f made a noticeable enough difference without much sacrifice.


Again, this is all with the reference bike being a 750 vs. your 600.


I have........ no bike.
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August 11, 2010, 02:52 PM

how many miles on the bike? is it a 530 width?

if you are upwards of 15,000 miles you should get a 520 conversion kit

expecially at the track, it is easier to find parts for 520 then 530

Get Renthal Sprockets, I think the ones I have got 25,000 miles on them and they were still fine. They make a good product.

Just remember that the gear ratio is the rear teeth over the front teeth for example 45/15=3.00 gear ratio
45/14=3.2 gear ratio
48/15=3.2 gear ratio

So going -1 in the front is like going +3 in the back

I think I said that right


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August 11, 2010, 03:03 PM

I looked at the Gearing Commander website the day after doing Summit Main and a really good example is that for me I wanted to be in 3rd gear, but I was not carrying enough speed which made the bike lug before I get the power curve. As for 2nd gear I had too much speed. That Gearing Commander website suggested I would be at nearly 10k rpms in 3rd gear coming around turn 1 instead of 9k rpms in 3rd gear. That would be huge for me to be at higher rpms.

I'm planning on taking small steps to see how it feels. If I still feel like I'm not in the power curve that I want to be in then I might go +2R in addition to the -1F, but not now.

P-Luv, I did talk to Greg and he said it wouldn't be a problem not replacing the chain, but it's always recommended. I ordered a Driven Front Sprockets 520 Conversion 15 Teeth today from Kneedraggers. Looks like it comes with the washers and what not for any width size difference. I'm going to use the chain that I have since I'm not changing out the rear sprocket. I'll deal with the wear on the $30 front sprocket. If I replace the rear sprocket with a +2 then I'll probably purchase all three parts at the same time and put the other -1F on the 08 GSXR 600 (if it fits and not worn out).

As for when to do it. My part has been ordered, what about yours Here is the link I used, just hit the drop down at the top of the page for the "15 teeth"
Driven Front Sprockets - 520 Conversion - Suzuki GSXR600 - Fits 2001 to 2009 Models


08 GSXR 600 (track), 07 GSXR 600 (race), 07 DRZ 400SM
02 FZ1, 88 Honda Shadow VLX
99 HD Electra Glide Ultra Classic (Sold Dec 2010)
Trackdays with: http://www.motorcyclexcitement.com/
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August 11, 2010, 03:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by r6hokie View Post
Get Renthal Sprockets
Wow, didn't see this till after I ordered. I'll remember that brand for when it's time to replace some more stuff


08 GSXR 600 (track), 07 GSXR 600 (race), 07 DRZ 400SM
02 FZ1, 88 Honda Shadow VLX
99 HD Electra Glide Ultra Classic (Sold Dec 2010)
Trackdays with: http://www.motorcyclexcitement.com/
Racing blog and info: http://www.jtbskitchen.com/racing
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August 11, 2010, 03:43 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilTheBiker View Post
If I replace the rear sprocket with a +2 then I'll probably purchase all three parts at the same time and put the other -1F on the 08 GSXR 600 (if it fits and not worn out).
Yeah, I was gonna say, you will most likely HAVE to change out the chain if you go +2 in the rear just on the point that your chain MIGHT not be long enough with that larger sprocket.

I've asked Greg about a price on a chain and front sprocket (I already have a rear just waiting to be installed).... We shall see. All the same, I'd like to be there when you install yours (and lend a hand) if possible.


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August 11, 2010, 05:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilTheBiker View Post
I looked at the Gearing Commander website the day after doing Summit Main and a really good example is that for me I wanted to be in 3rd gear, but I was not carrying enough speed which made the bike lug before I get the power curve. As for 2nd gear I had too much speed. That Gearing Commander website suggested I would be at nearly 10k rpms in 3rd gear coming around turn 1 instead of 9k rpms in 3rd gear. That would be huge for me to be at higher rpms.

I'm planning on taking small steps to see how it feels. If I still feel like I'm not in the power curve that I want to be in then I might go +2R in addition to the -1F, but not now.

P-Luv, I did talk to Greg and he said it wouldn't be a problem not replacing the chain, but it's always recommended. I ordered a Driven Front Sprockets 520 Conversion 15 Teeth today from Kneedraggers. Looks like it comes with the washers and what not for any width size difference. I'm going to use the chain that I have since I'm not changing out the rear sprocket. I'll deal with the wear on the $30 front sprocket. If I replace the rear sprocket with a +2 then I'll probably purchase all three parts at the same time and put the other -1F on the 08 GSXR 600 (if it fits and not worn out).

As for when to do it. My part has been ordered, what about yours Here is the link I used, just hit the drop down at the top of the page for the "15 teeth"
Driven Front Sprockets - 520 Conversion - Suzuki GSXR600 - Fits 2001 to 2009 Models

Heads up, If I am reading your post correctly you ordered a new 520 pitch countershaft sprocket to use with your stock 525 chain and rear sprocket. That isn't going to work. You need to order a 525 pitch countershaft sprocket.

Driven products are great by the way, so good choice in that regard.


CCS AM #710

Last edited by Todd; August 11, 2010 at 05:30 PM..
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True Riyduh
 
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August 12, 2010, 08:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd View Post
Heads up, If I am reading your post correctly you ordered a new 520 pitch countershaft sprocket to use with your stock 525 chain and rear sprocket. That isn't going to work. You need to order a 525 pitch countershaft sprocket.

Driven products are great by the way, so good choice in that regard.
Good point....


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August 12, 2010, 10:51 AM

thanks for your help!

phil is learning. i'm OK with how the chain and sprockets are for on my bike but phil thinks he'll ride better with a different sprocket. :o)

r6hokie -- i didnt even know you were still around!
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August 12, 2010, 11:02 AM

Ok! Thanks for the info. I knew I should have just called Kenny at MRP and picked it up from him. That's what I get for trying to be cheap.


08 GSXR 600 (track), 07 GSXR 600 (race), 07 DRZ 400SM
02 FZ1, 88 Honda Shadow VLX
99 HD Electra Glide Ultra Classic (Sold Dec 2010)
Trackdays with: http://www.motorcyclexcitement.com/
Racing blog and info: http://www.jtbskitchen.com/racing
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