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EGlovr
Most users ever online was 4,519, September 2, 2015 at 04:26 AM.
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  (#46)
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October 23, 2018, 10:25 AM

20 years from now I think all the major roads around here will have tolls. I've been watching MD (495 east side) construct more lanes that will become toll roads like the Va. side.

I honestly do not mind toll roads to a point. I have to cross Harry Nice Bridge on Rt 301 every time I go to my vacation house. $6 one way toll (return is free).

But seeing toll throttling just feels wrong.


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  (#47)
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October 23, 2018, 04:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHatch View Post
I am still not sure how a road that was built via tax payer dollars can even legally (I understand it was voted on and passed) be converted into a toll road. It flipping insane what they want for tolls on this road.

I get it in the private sector on a road like the Greenway where a public option did not exist and they purchased the land and constructed the road, they are creating something that the government didn't already produce and should therefore be able to monetize it in a manner commiserate with their investment expenditures.
This baffles my mind as well. My guess is that raising taxes is so incredibly unpopular that they are turning to other means of raising money for the state without actually calling it a tax (traffic cameras, tolls, most traffic violations). In this case, the state gets to offload the maintenance of the road to a private party to "save money on road maintenance" and allow the uber rich who fund their election campaigns to zip through on the newly established Lexus lanes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vonstallin View Post
I honestly do not mind toll roads to a point. I have to cross Harry Nice Bridge on Rt 301 every time I go to my vacation house. $6 one way toll (return is free).
I am also okay with using tolls, but only to recoup the capital expenditure for building new infrastructure. I get it, building a road costs a lot of money and that needs to come from somewhere. The people who travel on that road most and will benefit from its construction should foot the bill. It seems ideal. That said, once the construction is paid for, do away with the toll and just include its upkeep in the regular budget. When I grew up in SE VA, there was a toll on rt. 44 (now I-264). They removed the tolls in 1995. They were also only a quarter or 35 cents. Even adjusted for inflation that's a couple orders of magnitude cheaper than the literal highway robbery of the express lane tolls.
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  (#48)
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October 24, 2018, 08:51 AM

Roads/highways cost $$$ to build and to maintain. Localities get some benefit, increased traffic can mean increased business. Better access can mean increased population/tax base, etc. I can understand some portion of taxes used to build/maintain roads but I can also see the significant portion coming from the 'users'.


Pay-per-use is a sound idea but Profit-from-use is not good. The problem is that voters want service without tax. Elected officials can't get the infrastructure funded and still stay in office.
If we won't pay-to-play we end up with privatize-for-profit.


So what's the answer?


Physics always wins

. . . . so get that helmet cam! . . . . . . Because the D-K Effect is an STD .http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning...3Kruger_effect

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This is what happens when weak minded adults allow children to make decisions. You get stupid shit like this.
unintentional accidental

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  (#49)
Meh
 
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October 24, 2018, 10:19 AM

Do we not consider a gas tax a tax already?
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  (#50)
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October 24, 2018, 10:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lam@dcsf View Post
Roads/highways cost $$$ to build and to maintain. Localities get some benefit, increased traffic can mean increased business. Better access can mean increased population/tax base, etc. I can understand some portion of taxes used to build/maintain roads but I can also see the significant portion coming from the 'users'.


Pay-per-use is a sound idea but Profit-from-use is not good. The problem is that voters want service without tax. Elected officials can't get the infrastructure funded and still stay in office.
If we won't pay-to-play we end up with privatize-for-profit.


So what's the answer?

Most highway projects are built using one of two funding methods:

i. Municipal Bond issuance

ii. Budgeting


Either one is directly funded by taxpayers. Consumption taxing makes sense in many scenarios but not for local highways which are the primary artery and the 'lubrication' for the economic engine of a local and region economy.



Tolls are also in some ways a punitive regressive tax on the lower classes.

They often cannot afford housing in job centers & metropolitan centers, so they have to live further out where rents are less expensive - meaning, a further commute to get to work - thus paying higher toll & transportation cost and a greater percentage of their income on a 'public good.'



“Any man who tries to be good all the time is bound to come to ruin among the great number who are not good. Hence a Prince who wants to keep his authority must learn how not to be good, and use that knowledge, or refrain from using it, as necessity requires”.

- Nicolo Machiavelli 1469-1527

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  (#51)
thanksfornothing.org
 
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October 24, 2018, 01:39 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heist View Post
Tolls are also in some ways a punitive regressive tax on the lower classes.

They often cannot afford housing in job centers & metropolitan centers, so they have to live further out where rents are less expensive - meaning, a further commute to get to work - thus paying higher toll & transportation cost and a greater percentage of their income on a 'public good.'
unfortunately in NOVA that can apply to a huge portion of the residents.
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  (#52)
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October 24, 2018, 04:29 PM

I wish they could dig more underground roads/tunnels to move traffic. It would be extremely costly I know, but long term solutions for the region.

Underground Autobahn ... Elon Musk is working on something like that I read yesterday.


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  (#53)
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October 24, 2018, 04:45 PM

Tunnels:

https://la.curbed.com/2018/10/22/180...el-los-angeles

It could work if it's cheap enough.
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  (#54)
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October 26, 2018, 06:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS762ZX6 View Post
unfortunately in NOVA that can apply to a huge portion of the residents.

Very much true.

But who does it hurt more.



NOVAs lack of public transportation - mass transportation doesn't help matters at all.



Maryland gets a lot of things wrong in my opinion, but I will acknowledge that they are many mass transportation options. MARC, Metro, Metro Bus, Metro Access, MTA Bus, Purple Line (being built), Light Rail if headed to Baltimore, MetroLink Subway (yes, people forget Maryland has an independent subway line that runs from Baltimore up to Owings Mills).



“Any man who tries to be good all the time is bound to come to ruin among the great number who are not good. Hence a Prince who wants to keep his authority must learn how not to be good, and use that knowledge, or refrain from using it, as necessity requires”.

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  (#55)
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October 27, 2018, 06:27 PM

I do see it as a good way to get people to use the expensive ass metro they built down the toll road.

Traffic around that area is BS.
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  (#56)
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October 29, 2018, 05:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CCS762ZX6 View Post
I do see it as a good way to get people to use the expensive ass metro they built down the toll road.

Traffic around that area is BS.
You mean the one with the defective concrete that requires well over $200MM in re-work.



“Any man who tries to be good all the time is bound to come to ruin among the great number who are not good. Hence a Prince who wants to keep his authority must learn how not to be good, and use that knowledge, or refrain from using it, as necessity requires”.

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  (#57)
TNT
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October 29, 2018, 10:19 PM

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You mean the one with the defective concrete that requires well over $200MM in re-work.

You talk about shoddy planning, engineering, and construction requiring more than double the initial outlay as a bad thing. Why do a job right when you can get paid twice for doing it wrong? Plus, we're creating more jobs!


Government creating jobs...always a laugh. Government creates nothing. It manages, at best, and as thermodynamics tells us, you can't even break even.
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  (#58)
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October 30, 2018, 11:34 AM

lol


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  (#59)
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November 1, 2018, 12:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heist View Post
MetroLink Subway (yes, people forget Maryland has an independent subway line that runs from Baltimore up to Owings Mills).
Not me. I rode it for months. I'll never forget.


How's my posting? Please direct all concerns and inquiries to DCSBN's chief content manager, Hollywood, via PM.
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