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To all those who have served
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  (#1)
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eck226's Avatar
 
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Location: breakin in your locker so i can smash your glasses
To all those who have served - March 29, 2007, 10:55 AM

You stay up for 16 hours

He stays up for days on end.
_________________________

You take a warm shower to help you wake up.

He goes days or weeks without running water.
__________________________

You complain of a "headache", and call in sick.

He gets shot at as others are hit, and keeps moving forward.
__________________________

You put on your anti war/don't support the troops shirt, and go meet up with
your friends.

He still fights for your right to wear that shirt.
__________________________

You make sure you're cell phone is in your pocket.

He clutches the cross hanging on his chain next to his dog tags.
____________________ ______

You talk trash about your "buddies" that aren't with you.

He knows he may not see some of his buddies again.
__________________________

You walk down the beach, staring at all the pretty girls.

He patrols the streets, searching for insurgents and terrorists.
_________________________

You complain about how hot it is.

He wears his heavy gear, not daring to take off his helmet to wipe his brow.
__________________________

You go out to lunch, and complain because the restaurant got your order
wrong.

He doesn't get to eat today.
__________________________

Your maid makes your bed and washes your clothes.

He wears the same things for weeks, but makes sure his weapons are clean.
__________________________

You go to the mall and get your hair redone.

He doesn't have time to brush his teeth today.
__________________________

You're angry because your class ran 5 minutes ove r.

He's told he will be held over an extra 2 months.
__________________________

You call your girlfriend and set a date for tonight.

He waits for the mail to see if there is a letter from home.
__________________________

You hug and kiss your girlfriend, like you do everyday.

He holds his letter close and smells his love's perfume.
__________________________

You roll your eyes as a baby cries.

He gets a letter with pictures of his new child, and wonders if they'll ever
meet
__________________________

You criticize your government, and say that war never solves anything.

He sees the innocent tortured and killed by their own people and remembers
why he is fighting.
__________________________

You hear the jokes about the war, and make fun of men like him.

He hears the gunfire, bombs and screams of the wounded.
__________________________

You see only what the media wants you to s ee.

He sees the broken bodies lying around him.
__________________________

You are asked to go to the store by your parents. You don't.

He does exactly what he is told.
__________________________

You stay at home and watch TV.

He takes whatever time he is given to call, write home, sleep, and eat.
__________________________

You crawl into your soft bed, with down pillows, and get comfortable.

He tries to sleep but gets woken by mortars and helicopters all night long.
__________________________


The East Coast Kid


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi
This is America I can shit where I want. FREEDOM!!!
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March 29, 2007, 01:23 PM

No the feeling!
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singin sweet home alabama
 
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March 29, 2007, 02:27 PM

Out of curiousity, why does everyone consider being against a given war (iotw - anti-war) to be against supporting the troops.

The best way to support the troops IMO, is to be sure their lives aren't being wasted in unnecessary wars by reckless politicians. I sure hope he's willing to keep fighting for my right to do so.

Just as it is the soldiers duty to fight, it is the citizen's duty to hold our elected officials accountable and voice our demands.


"No race has ever been won in the first corner, but plenty have been lost there."

Last edited by DvlsAdvc8; March 29, 2007 at 02:31 PM..
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  (#4)
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March 29, 2007, 02:40 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DvlsAdvc8
Out of curiousity, why does everyone consider being against a given war (iotw - anti-war) to be against supporting the troops.

The best way to support the troops IMO, is to be sure their lives aren't being wasted in unnecessary wars by reckless politicians. I sure hope he's willing to keep fighting for my right to do so.

Just as it is the soldiers duty to fight, it is the citizen's duty to hold our elected officials accountable and voice our demands.
I hear this argument a lot lately, but I'm not sure if it fits the original premise of the posting. Could be wrong. That said though, when was the last time any of you actually thanked a serviceman directly? By directly, I mean not by voicing opposition to the politicians that put them in harms way during this war or any other war. It's pretty simple to do and means an awful lot to them. My own personal example is just this past Tuesday a group of soldiers where having lunch at Uno's in Merrifield. I picked up their tab and the look on their faces when I refused their thanks to me, but rather said it was me who thanks them was worth every cent. It doesn't even take digging into your pocket. Just look them square in the eye on the street and request to shake their hand while saying thank you. Then move on.

Just my opinion and nothing will ever convince me not to say thanks every chance I get.
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March 29, 2007, 03:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DvlsAdvc8
Out of curiousity, why does everyone consider being against a given war (iotw - anti-war) to be against supporting the troops.

The best way to support the troops IMO, is to be sure their lives aren't being wasted in unnecessary wars by reckless politicians. I sure hope he's willing to keep fighting for my right to do so.

Just as it is the soldiers duty to fight, it is the citizen's duty to hold our elected officials accountable and voice our demands.
Most of your anti-war lobbyists are calling for troop cuts and budget cuts. This, in turn, results in less protection and people on the gruond to help our troops, which results in more deaths of OUR troops.

Want to support your troops? Remember that they're fighting for you, regardless of whether or not you support the war/action/etc.

Wear a ribbon and keep your mouth shut so the generals can make sure our troops get home to be with everybody, not in a body bag. If you want to bitch about it, do so after our boys come home. As for now, put up a unified front. Dissention never looks good to our enemies.


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March 29, 2007, 03:48 PM

Read this, especially the last paragraph. Understand that "acting" patriotic may be the very opposite of a patriots actions. I don't think supporting individuals will EVER result in anything negative, however, supporting causes that violate the spirit of the constructs in which these individuals live is NOT an action of a patriot.

http://www.ppu.org.uk/learn/early/po...rly_years.html

My favorite quote: "The language of Remembrance, in the light of that, looks more like propaganda than passion." More like propaganda than passion, that, my friends, is the crux of any argument that will result from this thread... THAT is what you all should address.

History often repeats itself. Just read and ponder. This doesn't need to be another "bashing the war" thread.


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Last edited by B; March 29, 2007 at 04:21 PM..
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March 29, 2007, 04:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by YaoMatt
<SNIP>
Wear a ribbon and keep your mouth shut so the generals can make sure our troops get home to be with everybody, not in a body bag. If you want to bitch about it, do so after our boys come home. .
exsqweeeeeeze.... NOT!... Without the vocalization of dissenting opinions - troops could be over there indefinately...

I make NO bones about the fact that I am Anti-War (in terms of Iraq) - but it doesn't mean I don't support the troops.. I will admire anyone who can serve in the armed forces and carry out orders that they don't agree with as that's the job....

I went to my g/f "welcome home warrior" celebration - for her unit - it was a celebration for her unit that had come home from iraq.... Part of the speech from her commanding officer had - was that this was going to be a protracted war and that we (Army) was in it for the long haul..etc... He wasn't talking months but years - and were not talking small numbers, at one point he mentioned decade - WTF!!! We hear nice buzz words - like having to have more troops to really win the war, stay the course, etc.. Its seems to me that I have yet to hear when it will be over etc. It's very possible that to to win - would take allot longer than the public has been told...

Fwiw - those I know thru my g/f don't necessarily believe in the reasons they are over there (WMD) - but they feel that they are doing some good for the people over there and continue to do their job as it's about the people... I will always respect that - but no way will I keep my mouth shut when the gov't doesnt tell the truth (length of war, wmd, etc) - it's part of the checks and balances in our system that make this country great....


-Jason
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singin sweet home alabama
 
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March 29, 2007, 04:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Madali
I hear this argument a lot lately, but I'm not sure if it fits the original premise of the posting. Could be wrong. That said though, when was the last time any of you actually thanked a serviceman directly? By directly, I mean not by voicing opposition to the politicians that put them in harms way during this war or any other war. It's pretty simple to do and means an awful lot to them. My own personal example is just this past Tuesday a group of soldiers where having lunch at Uno's in Merrifield. I picked up their tab and the look on their faces when I refused their thanks to me, but rather said it was me who thanks them was worth every cent. It doesn't even take digging into your pocket. Just look them square in the eye on the street and request to shake their hand while saying thank you. Then move on.

Just my opinion and nothing will ever convince me not to say thanks every chance I get.
Yeah, I know it's not quite in line with the original posting... that's why I prefaced it with "out of curiosity".

When was the last time I thanked a serviceman directly? Hmm... as in a direct "thank you"... probably never... feels kind of goofy to say for me and my friends in the Military would probably laugh at me for saying it. ha ha. That said, I make it clearly known how much respect I have for taking to a task with enthusiasm, doing one's duty if you will, regardless of ones own opinions. But then, most of my military friends signed up for a job first and patriotism second (god, honor, country etc) - not to demean their committment or patriotism or anything... which I think is still top notch.

I'm not really speaking to the intent of the post as I am to why a citizen voicing opposition to a war is such a negative thing... in fact, something so negative as to be contrasted with the beauty of a soldier doing his duty to defend that right - you see this all the time.

The way I look at it, I'm doing my job as a citizen to make sure the lives of my brethren who choose to serve, are not wasted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaomatt
Most of your anti-war lobbyists are calling for troop cuts and budget cuts. This, in turn, results in less protection and people on the gruond to help our troops, which results in more deaths of OUR troops.

Want to support your troops? Remember that they're fighting for you, regardless of whether or not you support the war/action/etc.

Wear a ribbon and keep your mouth shut so the generals can make sure our troops get home to be with everybody, not in a body bag. If you want to bitch about it, do so after our boys come home. As for now, put up a unified front. Dissention never looks good to our enemies.
I respect your opinion, but disagree.

What alternative does anyone who thinks a given war is folly have other than to lobby for withdrawal? Once a President has committed, there's no going back until the President decides withdrawal is appropriate or congress steps in with budget cuts. In the end, it is the congress that represents the will of the people, not the President. The President is only the executor of the people's will. He ought not fight wars the people do not want to fight. Congress' only way to force the President's action is through budget cuts. In reality, it is a President's stubborness to withdraw (only human nature - to admit one's course of action was wrong, unsuccessful or even ) that puts the troops at risk.

As for your final sentence, I hope I never see anyone be silent purely to show a unified front. Democracy ought always include dissention, and if that doesn't look good to our enemies, then so be it... it is among the many costs of Democracy.

I hope no one ever nods in agreement simply for unity when considering risking the lives of our troops. I think we all have a duty to make sure those lives are being risked necessarily, and this is a constant task, not one that we voice every 4 years.

Personally, the best I can do for the troops is vigorously excercise the rights they lay down their lives to protect. If they're willing to sacrifice their lives to ensure them, it is important to me to use them.

As an argument to be appreciative of our military men and women, this is a great post, but I'm always disturbed by anything that diminishes the value of dissent - I'm a true Devil's Advocate. Even when we are strongly united, dissent should be brought, and loudly... that we not be deafened by the sound of our lockstep march.

I mean, if a right is worth dying for to protect, why be angry, argumentative, bitter or whatever when someone exercises that right? I'd think more along the lines of "that's right... good... vigorously debate what we're doing over here. At least with people paying attention and taking action, they show they are not apathetic to our soldier's plight.

</end soapbox>


"No race has ever been won in the first corner, but plenty have been lost there."

Last edited by DvlsAdvc8; March 29, 2007 at 04:25 PM..
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March 29, 2007, 04:18 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gixrben
History often repeats itself. Just read and ponder. This doesn't need to be another "bashing the war" thread.
Amen, I just meant to point out principle for discussion. I'm not commenting on the present situation.


"No race has ever been won in the first corner, but plenty have been lost there."
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March 29, 2007, 04:24 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DvlsAdvc8
Amen, I just meant to point out principle for discussion. I'm not commenting on the present situation.
It will inevitably become a war bashers vs boot camp brainwashees, UNLESS people are smart enough to read that really really good story I posted (it took me 10 minutes to finally find it) and understand what this argument is really about.


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singin sweet home alabama
 
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March 29, 2007, 04:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gixrben
It will inevitably become a war bashers vs boot camp brainwashees, UNLESS people are smart enough to read that really really good story I posted (it took me 10 minutes to finally find it) and understand what this argument is really about.
Ben, I've argued with you to the end of the universe (literally)... but I gotta respect your ability to see through the muddy water.


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March 29, 2007, 04:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DvlsAdvc8
Ben, I've argued with you to the end of the universe (literally)... but I gotta respect your ability to see through the muddy water.
"To the end of the universe (literally)" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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March 29, 2007, 04:49 PM


(This is not to bust on any one it’s just a thought for every one)

I just to want to say that there have been so many reasons given to us for why we are over there. We really only can speculate because we do not have all the facts because the people who made the decisions to send us over there have more information that is classified and can make a more informed decision to be there strategically. Few people in the congress will actually tell you what is really going on there but they are willing to play politics about this because they feel that they can get into power or more power.

The media is biased to a party and will insure that they will only print the information that will allow the party they support to regain power. They don’t show the pictures of hundreds of thousands of people killed by the regime or the mass burial sites with hundreds of bodies of men and women. Nor do they show you the pictures of that town on the border of Iran that the regime destroyed in the Iran Iraq war.

The town was gassed with biological weapons, the bodies of men women and children that were not even in the war scattered in the streets and in their homes. They died in fear and in severe pain they did not die a fast death they died a slow and horrible death. They felt a burning in their eyes and nose and ears as mucus and other clear liquids from the biological weapon infected them. Then their muscles contract and contort and spasm uncontrollably causing broken bones and more pain. The lungs fill with mucus and liquid drowning them if they do not drown then they lay there unable to move and they suffer even more as the weapon destroys their body from the inside. They don't show us the carnage that the insurgents cause to innocent people that are just trying to live their lives in peace. We don’t see that the schools we built are allowing boys and girls to learn to read and write. Not just boys.

The media will not tell you we actually did find NBC (Nuclear Biological Chemical) material there in Iraq. That would not make a good story for the politicians they are wanting in power. Why don’t they show the Twin Towers on fire? They give you conspiracy theories that we are only there for the oil or other political agendas besides what is stated.

We as soldiers do not want to fight, we do not want to kill we would rather have the ability to hug our wives and children and see them grow up free. We volunteer to insure that not just our families but yours as well has the ability to be free and protected from tyranny and control.

I think the hardest thing for me to do as a veteran is to see my brothers and sisters die and people desecrate their burial sites; disturb their funerals because they were soldiers.

When I lived in Germany I was very unfortunate to see the eastern German border. I remember looking at the border and seeing the razor fences with shotguns and machineguns attached to the fence posts pointing along the fence so if any East German touched it they would be killed or the Guard towers every 5 km with machineguns. The Media only showed you the wall. I remember looking over into the valley on the other side of the border to a small town which was surrounded by they same type of fence. A town!! The buildings all painted in grays whites and blacks no color no flower boxes not a thing. But the West German town I was in was vibrant full of color, flower boxes, and life.

I was surprised and happy when I heard the Soviet block was crumbling and the walls were coming down. I could not believe it happened with out a war. But you did not hear that there were several hundred thousand American troops there in West Germany preparing for war every day ensuring that we were ready to defend Europe if that should ever be the case. That does not include the other hundreds of thousands of American troops that were stationed in other European countries to do the same thing.


While I was humping a ruck sack and a m-60 from 1991 to 1995 what where you doing? While I was lying in the sand waiting for the order that I knew that would come to me. During those years what where you doing?

Who can support a war? NO ONE SUPPORTS WARS. It is a necessary evil as a free and powerful nation that we must do to protect those who can not protect them selves. Those little boys and girls, the men and women who only wish to live in peace? We as American soldiers swear an oath of office when we enlist to protect you from foreign and domestic enemies. Since we are one of the super powers should we not take responsibility to help other peoples in their need? Or are we supposed to hide behind our borders and not care what is happening in Iraq, Somalia, and Sudan? What if that were you that were being raped tortured and killed would you not want help?

I am sad to hear that ohhh I support the soldiers but I don’t support the war? Who really wants war? This is a cliché that is used for political uses only. It was created in Vietnam and it is still being used today.

If you support our troops have you donated blood to the Red Cross? Have you sent them any care packages? I sure loved mine when I got one. I lost the letter I got it was from a little boy in Tennessee in the third grade, I remember I got a bag of Recies pieces and a book to read along with toiletries. Have you stopped some one from disturbing a funeral of a soldier or desecrating their graves? Have you gone to a VA Hospital and spent time with our wounded soldiers. Have you donated money to the organizations that do any of these things?

(This is not to bust on any one it’s just a thought for every one)

Madali I know you will not accept a thanks from them but I am saying thanks for them and I hope to meet you some time.
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Ready To Rock & Roll!
 
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March 29, 2007, 05:10 PM

I didn't read all of everyone's replies so far, so if i say anything stupid, please don't take it to heart.
First thing i want to say is to Travis, and that is a great fu*king BIG " YOU'RE WELCOME! AND THANK YOU, AND OTHERS LIKE YOU FOR YOUR SUPPORT!"
I'm proud to say that i do know what it feels it like to have some complete stranger come up to me on the streets, shake my hand and say thank you. and like most military members, i try to say it's them that WE (the soldiers) should be thanking them. i'm humble when it comes to my job. i love what i do, i love my country, and i love the foundations that our country was built on. i do NOT love however, the shit hole this country has become b/c of all the democratic and liberal faggot assholes that have gotten their way up in DC.
take this war for example. everyone in washington is crying "boo-hoo, our boys and girls are getting killed in iraq, we need to bring them home, boo-hoo". last time i checked, the draft has NOT been reactivated and all branches of the military are still a complete 100% volunteer service, am i wrong? also, we are almost half a decade or just over it into this war, and we only have just over 3200 casualties in this war. sad thing is, a LOT of those are also from idiot mistakes that have happed completely seperate from where the fighting is. do you know that in 1965 alone, there were more than 5000 US troops killed in Vietnam? in one year there was 2000+ more troops killed than the 5 years we've been going at it now. and like i said, it's an all volunteer service, they know what their getting into when they sign that paper. they know there's a 99.9% chance that they're going to get shipped to iraq or afganistan, just like i know it. and i get so damn sick and tired of the news showing all this crap. i get tired of all these damn liberal activists saying we're mistreating these TERRORISTS and that stupid fat cows like Cindy Sheehann say it's the President's fault that her son died in combat. Cindy, news flash...if you want to blame someone, blame yourself for not talking your son out of joining the Marines. And this kind of crap is going on while they kidnap people, and saw their heads off while still alive. The problem is, that the majority of the people that are all "anti-war this" and "bring them home that" have never put on the uniform, and have never felt what it really is like to "stand up for the little guy" so to speak.
okay, i'm getting off my soapbox, and like i said in the begining, please don't anyone take this too personally.


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singin sweet home alabama
 
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March 29, 2007, 05:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by chryos
(This is not to bust on any one it’s just a thought for every one)

I just to want to say that there have been so many reasons given to us for why we are over there.
What I'm asking isn't about the reasons... or even specific to this war. It's about the silencing of dissent purely to appear "unified". In fact, the negative attitude these sort of things have toward dissent is utterly repulsive to me... and IMO, totally contrary to true patriotic sentiment.

Quote:


While I was humping a ruck sack and a m-60 from 1991 to 1995 what where you doing? While I was lying in the sand waiting for the order that I knew that would come to me. During those years what where you doing?
I was in middle school.

Quote:

Who can support a war? NO ONE SUPPORTS WARS.

I will support a war that I feel is necessary with full vigor. Any war worth fighting is a war worth my signing up for Military service. However, most wars aren't wars of defense, but wars to promote interests - I fully supported the invasion of Afghanistan and the continued hunt for Al Qaeida. Now ask me if I signed up? Nope... they won't have me - I suffered a nasty broken foot on the second day of the crucible in 97 - yep, I signed up to be a Marine. You know what they do when that happens? You spend time in Medical Rehab Platoon (MRP) until your foot heals and then you attempt the crucible again with the next Battalion that comes through. Then when your foot breaks again they send you home (or more specifically, they tell you "do you want to do this again, the doctors say you'll probably break it again"). Fun fun.

I was never convinced it was necessary to invade Iraq and I believed it would result in a quagmire. I exercised my right to voice that opinion and continue to do so ... despicable is the citizen who sits idly by while their conscience tells them their nation is on the wrong path... not the one who protests a given war. To think a thing and not act on it is treason to the principles I think this country was founded on.

Quote:
Since we are one of the super powers should we not take responsibility to help other peoples in their need? Or are we supposed to hide behind our borders and not care what is happening in Iraq, Somalia, and Sudan? What if that were you that were being raped tortured and killed would you not want help?
There is an arguement there, but is the mission of the United States Military to save the world from all evil? Could such a mission even be accomplished?

"Walk softly, and carry a big stick." -TR

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If you support our troops have you donated blood to the Red Cross? Have you sent them any care packages?
Yes and yes (in fact, many times - I've lost count since 2003 - I'm a universal donor O- ).

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Have you stopped some one from disturbing a funeral of a soldier or desecrating their graves? Have you gone to a VA Hospital and spent time with our wounded soldiers. Have you donated money to the organizations that do any of these things?
Nope - yet to see this happen though (and it would indeed be despicable) - and nope - I have a weak stomach. Barfing on them probably help morale much. (I know, bad timing for a joke...)


"No race has ever been won in the first corner, but plenty have been lost there."

Last edited by DvlsAdvc8; March 29, 2007 at 05:42 PM..
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