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Austrailia gets it. Why cant we?
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Austrailia gets it. Why cant we? - September 22, 2006, 04:25 PM

"Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.

A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown . Treasurer Peter Costello, s een as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state, and its laws were made by parliament. "If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you", he said on national television.

"I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Australia: one the Australian law and another the Is lamic law, that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a bet ter option", Costello said.

Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the other country. Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values should "clear off. Basically people who don't want to be Australians, and who don't want ! to live by Australian values and understand them, well then, they can basically clear off", he said.

Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he su pported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques Quote: "IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians."

"However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the 'politically correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia." "However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand."&n bsp; "This idea of Australia being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle."

"This culture has b een developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom"

"We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, Learn the language!"

"Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented . It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture."

"We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us."

"If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like " A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet We are happy with our cultu re and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. By all means, keep your culture, but do not force it on others.

"This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life , I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'."

"If you aren't ha ppy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU


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September 22, 2006, 04:48 PM

Wow. +1.


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September 22, 2006, 06:19 PM

why can't we do that here?
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September 22, 2006, 07:00 PM

http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/beamerican.html


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September 22, 2006, 08:13 PM

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Originally Posted by SVbadguy
good catch. I kinda knew it as I was reading.


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September 22, 2006, 08:48 PM

Amen. Good find Drag
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September 23, 2006, 12:45 AM

Thanks SVBadGuy... so I didn't have to post it. IMO, the views presented by these kind of chains are ignorant. It's intolerant chest thumping.

American culture is as it is, as great as it is, BECAUSE it is a mixture of cultures. No one said it was supposed to be easy. Nothing great ever is.

Further, who cares what religious laws one lives under, just so long as one is also living within US Law, as a citizen of this country. As for how this country changes... majority rules, and may the best ideas win.

The chain letter is simple hate masquerading as patriotism. The devil always wears nice clothes.


"No race has ever been won in the first corner, but plenty have been lost there."

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September 23, 2006, 11:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DvlsAdvc8
Thanks SVBadGuy... so I didn't have to post it. IMO, the views presented by these kind of chains are ignorant. It's intolerant chest thumping.

American culture is as it is, as great as it is, BECAUSE it is a mixture of cultures. No one said it was supposed to be easy. Nothing great ever is.

Further, who cares what religious laws one lives under, just so long as one is also living within US Law, as a citizen of this country. As for how this country changes... majority rules, and may the best ideas win.

The chain letter is simple hate masquerading as patriotism. The devil always wears nice clothes.
I don't believe that we should suddenly deem ourselves officially a Christian nation, however, I do certainly find the hyphenated-American trend offensive and devisive.

Immigrants do need to adapt and integrate into this soceity if they wish to be a contributing member and not a burden. Immigrants 50 years ago did not have 1/100th of the programs and tools available at their disposal to ease the transition yet they seemed to have managed much better than the current crop coming in.

That chain letter specifically references a situation where US law (ie Florida law) was adapted to fit the backwardness of a religion that intends to keep women second class citizens. In Dearborn Michigan, they actually play the call to prayer over the town loudspeakers to accomodate the almost entirely Muslim population. If that same approach was taken in a similiarily majority Christian town, people would be protesting yesterday.

Despite your previous attempts to down play the Faith of the Founding Fathers (ie Thomas Jefferson), this nation was founded in large part by Christian men. Nothing hatefull about that.

You might call me a bigotted religious fool, but I find nothing in that chain letter hateful. If I was offended by something in another country that was largely comprised of people that practiced that very thing I found offensive, I would get over it or move.

BTW...didn't think you believed in the Devil...?
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September 23, 2006, 11:52 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DvlsAdvc8
Thanks SVBadGuy... so I didn't have to post it. IMO, the views presented by these kind of chains are ignorant. It's intolerant chest thumping.

American culture is as it is, as great as it is, BECAUSE it is a mixture of cultures. No one said it was supposed to be easy. Nothing great ever is.

Further, who cares what religious laws one lives under, just so long as one is also living within US Law, as a citizen of this country. As for how this country changes... majority rules, and may the best ideas win.

The chain letter is simple hate masquerading as patriotism. The devil always wears nice clothes.
It's not very often that I speak out on issues like this but something needs to be said here.

There is a reason that immigrants come to America. It's to find and create a better way of life. The key word in that sentence was BETTER!! Those of us who are born and raised here don't get to age 18 and decide they are moving to Iraq or Sadi Arabia to find or make a better way of life.

Simply put we're not perfect in any way shape or form but the fact still remains people are coming here so were doing something right that isn't happening over there. I'm ALL for immigrants coming over here and making better lives and contributing to the nation I love but what gives them the right to attempt to change this country into the very thing they JUST LEFT??

Does this make sense to ayone else? We have pictures on ID's for a reason. We speak english for a reason. We trust in God for a reason. If you didn't like the idea of America then you wouldn't have come to America to start over. I think there is a very basic concept that is being forgotten in all of this. It's one thing to introduce a peice of culture from another part of the world but it's something totally different to force that same culture in it's entierty on a nation that YOU are visiting.

Not ranting and I hope no one thinks I'm being racist or something because I'm not. I just love my home and I'm tired of watching it get torn apart.


God Speed Jeff! You'll never be forgotten.

BOOSTZX3 : in all seriousness head injuries ain't no joke. I've had around 10 concussions and now I ride a Buell Don't let it happen to you!
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September 23, 2006, 12:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHatch
I don't believe that we should suddenly deem ourselves officially a Christian nation, however, I do certainly find the hyphenated-American trend offensive and devisive.

Immigrants do need to adapt and integrate into this soceity if they wish to be a contributing member and not a burden. Immigrants 50 years ago did not have 1/100th of the programs and tools available at their disposal to ease the transition yet they seemed to have managed much better than the current crop coming in.

That chain letter specifically references a situation where US law (ie Florida law) was adapted to fit the backwardness of a religion that intends to keep women second class citizens. In Dearborn Michigan, they actually play the call to prayer over the town loudspeakers to accomodate the almost entirely Muslim population. If that same approach was taken in a similiarily majority Christian town, people would be protesting yesterday.

Despite your previous attempts to down play the Faith of the Founding Fathers (ie Thomas Jefferson), this nation was founded in large part by Christian men. Nothing hatefull about that.

You might call me a bigotted religious fool, but I find nothing in that chain letter hateful. If I was offended by something in another country that was largely comprised of people that practiced that very thing I found offensive, I would get over it or move.

BTW...didn't think you believed in the Devil...?
The devil is a symbol, I was speaking metaphorically. And whether you like it or not, immigrants don't have to want to adapt. You don't have to want to adapt to them either. But regardless, EVERYONE will will adapt to each other, and the ever changing soup of American culture thereby gets a little more spice and flavor. Years ago, people said the same thing you are saying.... only about Irish immigrants. It was nonsense then and it is nonsense today. Regarding the success of today's immigrants... who knows... that's besides the point. If you have issues with the programs we make available to them, then address that. But the path the chain letter leads you down is an evil one; more on that later.

btw, it doesn't matter the religion of the men who founded the country. What matters is that they CLEARLY founded it on FREEDOM of religion, not Christian religion. The very first treaty this nation wrote even stated such in no uncertain terms: Treaty of Tripoli - "The United States is in no way founded on the Christian religion". Argument dead on arrival... 200+ years ago.

The call to prayer issue you bring up is entirely different... and I'd have no problem with you protesting it. Hell, I'm a member of about 3 different organizations who find it obnoxious and simply rude. However, it was put to a vote by the citizens in Dearborn MI. The town isn't the one blarring the call to prayer; it is coming from loudspeakers atop of mosques. There isn't any state involvement except as it applies to noise ordinances. It'd be like Muslims protesting over bells ringing at Catholic churches.

Besides, I don't find religion offensive. I find the notion implied by the chain letter that to live here, I should be a happy little Christian American. That's personally offensive to me. Further, it is my opinion that the email is ignorant. It defends American culture without a real understanding of WHAT American culture is. American culture is culture soup. The mixing of culture and tradition of people from all sorts of countries. No, one group doesn't have to adapt. We all do... and whether you like it or not... we all will. Culture by definition is the common values of a society, and immigrants ARE members of our society, and thus their values become a part of our values as they propagate... it is an ever evolving process.

Back to the evil path I mentioned above. Propaganda like this is only the first step of becoming comfortable with hate in the righteous name of defending your way of life, traditional values and culture. If you want a nation dedicated to protecting a certain culture from any and all influences, because it is the "right" culture, then may I suggest you time warp to Germany circa 1939.... or Mississippi circa 1955. You might also find the ideas presented in Mein Kampf to be appealing (as this chain letter is expousing many of the ideas of its author)... or perhaps you might look into the opinions of one Nathan Bedford Forrest.

Now if you actually do some of this investigation I suggest, I commend you. And I "pray" you become enlightened as to why I find this chain letter so offensive.

As I said, the devil always wears nice clothes.


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September 23, 2006, 12:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DvlsAdvc8
The devil is a symbol, I was speaking metaphorically. And whether you like it or not, immigrants don't have to want to adapt. You don't have to want to adapt to them either. But regardless, EVERYONE will will adapt to each other, and the ever changing soup of American culture thereby gets a little more spice and flavor. Years ago, people said the same thing you are saying.... only about Irish immigrants. It was nonsense then and it is nonsense today. Regarding the success of today's immigrants... who knows... that's besides the point. If you have issues with the programs we make available to them, then address that. But the path the chain letter leads you down is an evil one; more on that later.

btw, it doesn't matter the religion of the men who founded the country. What matters is that they CLEARLY founded it on FREEDOM of religion, not Christian religion. The very first treaty this nation wrote even stated such in no uncertain terms: Treaty of Tripoli - "The United States is in no way founded on the Christian religion". Argument dead on arrival... 200+ years ago.

The call to prayer issue you bring up is entirely different... and I'd have no problem with you protesting it. Hell, I'm a member of about 3 different organizations who find it obnoxious and simply rude. However, it was put to a vote by the citizens in Dearborn MI. The town isn't the one blarring the call to prayer; it is coming from loudspeakers atop of mosques. There isn't any state involvement except as it applies to noise ordinances. It'd be like Muslims protesting over bells ringing at Catholic churches.

Besides, I don't find religion offensive. I find the notion implied by the chain letter that to live here, I should be a happy little Christian American. That's personally offensive to me. Further, it is my opinion that the email is ignorant. It defends American culture without a real understanding of WHAT American culture is. American culture is culture soup. The mixing of culture and tradition of people from all sorts of countries. No, one group doesn't have to adapt. We all do... and whether you like it or not... we all will. Culture by definition is the common values of a society, and immigrants ARE members of our society, and thus their values become a part of our values as they propagate... it is an ever evolving process.

Back to the evil path I mentioned above. Propaganda like this is only the first step of becoming comfortable with hate in the righteous name of defending your way of life, traditional values and culture. If you want a nation dedicated to protecting a certain culture from any and all influences, because it is the "right" culture, then may I suggest you time warp to Germany circa 1939.... or Mississippi circa 1955. You might also find the ideas presented in Mein Kampf to be appealing (as this chain letter is expousing many of the ideas of its author)... or perhaps you might look into the opinions of one Nathan Bedford Forrest.

Now if you actually do some of this investigation I suggest, I commend you. And I "pray" you become enlightened as to why I find this chain letter so offensive.

As I said, the devil always wears nice clothes.
Wait .... did you just say that having the veiw of that chain leter is the exact saem thing as what Hitler tried to do?

That makes no sense at all. Hitler intended to complete world domination through death and violence. The point we're trying to make is that the imigrants should not be punished for having their beliefs and their values but why should their beliefs and values be pushed on me?

Please show me one shred of documentation where it says we're forcing the immigrants to come over here so we can FORCE our beliefs and values on them? You won't find it and you know it. Show me where we're moving into their homelands in the thousands upon thousands and forcing our beliefs and values on them just we can live there too.

It's pretty simple. Come to America, start your new life and intertwine what you find here with what you have known. No problem there. Don't come to America and tell me I'm offending you because I trust in God and speak english so I shoudl change MY homeland to better fit what you just freaking left.


God Speed Jeff! You'll never be forgotten.

BOOSTZX3 : in all seriousness head injuries ain't no joke. I've had around 10 concussions and now I ride a Buell Don't let it happen to you!
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September 23, 2006, 01:04 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnySpeed954
It's not very often that I speak out on issues like this but something needs to be said here.

There is a reason that immigrants come to America. It's to find and create a better way of life. The key word in that sentence was BETTER!! Those of us who are born and raised here don't get to age 18 and decide they are moving to Iraq or Sadi Arabia to find or make a better way of life.

Simply put we're not perfect in any way shape or form but the fact still remains people are coming here so were doing something right that isn't happening over there. I'm ALL for immigrants coming over here and making better lives and contributing to the nation I love but what gives them the right to attempt to change this country into the very thing they JUST LEFT??

Does this make sense to ayone else? We have pictures on ID's for a reason. We speak english for a reason. We trust in God for a reason. If you didn't like the idea of America then you wouldn't have come to America to start over. I think there is a very basic concept that is being forgotten in all of this. It's one thing to introduce a peice of culture from another part of the world but it's something totally different to force that same culture in it's entierty on a nation that YOU are visiting.

Not ranting and I hope no one thinks I'm being racist or something because I'm not. I just love my home and I'm tired of watching it get torn apart.
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September 23, 2006, 01:27 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnySpeed954
It's not very often that I speak out on issues like this but something needs to be said here.

There is a reason that immigrants come to America. It's to find and create a better way of life. The key word in that sentence was BETTER!! Those of us who are born and raised here don't get to age 18 and decide they are moving to Iraq or Sadi Arabia to find or make a better way of life.

Simply put we're not perfect in any way shape or form but the fact still remains people are coming here so were doing something right that isn't happening over there. I'm ALL for immigrants coming over here and making better lives and contributing to the nation I love but what gives them the right to attempt to change this country into the very thing they JUST LEFT??

Does this make sense to ayone else? We have pictures on ID's for a reason. We speak english for a reason. We trust in God for a reason. If you didn't like the idea of America then you wouldn't have come to America to start over. I think there is a very basic concept that is being forgotten in all of this. It's one thing to introduce a peice of culture from another part of the world but it's something totally different to force that same culture in it's entierty on a nation that YOU are visiting.

Not ranting and I hope no one thinks I'm being racist or something because I'm not. I just love my home and I'm tired of watching it get torn apart.
Johnny, what we are talking about are two things: our principles and our culture.

Our principles are things like freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc. Our culture are things like the "protestant work ethic" or celebrating Christmas, Halloween, Thanksgiving... Lent... or high reaching ideas like Tolerance and opportunity.

I honestly don't feel that anyone I've met here is a racist or full of hate. But chain letters like this are like the road to hell, paved with good intentions. We like things the way they are, they've been successful... we're rich... you want to come here, so be like us. But that's not what made us rich. What made us rich is in fact our static principles, not many of these cultural things you think need defending. So what if an immigrant family speaks Spanish? It's useful for them to learn English, and they probably will eventually (is it easy for you to learn a new language?). Similarly, if you live in an area dominated by people who speak spanish, its probably advantageous to you to learn spanish. It's not about a national language. You should learn, what it is advantageous to you to learn. There is incentive. Government should act in accordance to the nature of its people, if a major share of the population speaks spanish, while the other half speaks english... yeah, signs should be in two languages. This only seems to be a problem in the Xenophobic US... Europeans have had this for years without complaint. So maybe there's something more going on... maybe its not just about the language huh?

You ask "what gives them the right to change this country into the very thing they just left"? Put simply... they live here now. This is now their home. They, like everyone else, want what they think is best. They might be wrong... but the great thing about this country is that they can do their damndest to make themselves heard. They have the same right to change this country as you or I do. You know, the DBA in the office next to me just became an American citizen last month. He honestly thinks I'm a heathen... but passing that citizenship test was clearly one of the happiest moments for him when he talked about it at work the next day. He doesn't have to agree with me. I can't stand half of his ideas, but because I believe firmly that the best ideas will eventually prevail... that you CAN trust in the people.

It's all about the dialogue... the challenge of living in such a dynamic society. I'm presented with this chain letter and disagreeing with it, am presenting an alternate view. This goes on hundreds of thousdands of times a day in hundreds of message boards, coffee shops, work places and living rooms.

It seems your understanding of what this country is about is a little off. We don't trust in God. The principle is freedom of religion. I am certainly included in the "WE" as a US citizen, and I certainly don't trust in God. The only REASON for what you claim is simply that the majority is. Yet another principle... given all forms of rule, the best form found to date is majority rule, with protection for minorities.

To further open your mind, "In God We Haven't Trusted". The motto was added to the coins in the 1950's over the communist scare (in fact, this is also when "In God We Trust" BECAME the motto). The fear was that the communist party in the US would come to power, and in order to differentiate the US from godless communism and expose communists as outsiders, "In God We Trust" was added. 100% truth. It's only been there for about 50 years... that's what I call being founding on. Even more, the pledge of Allegiance was also changed. The original version didn't have so much disruption... "one nation, under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all"... sure has a funky awkward number of pauses doesn't it? Well that's because the original DID NOT HAVE "UNDER GOD" in it. It was inserted... probably by more people who don't seem to understand the greatness of the founding fathers. The original motto, ironically comes from a poem that implies socialism. E Pluribus Unum... which is latin for "From many... one" (original meaning was labor related... the fruits of our labor go to one effort). Unfortunately, civics classes in this country suck.

The idea about America is that you have the power. The People have the power. Think something should be different, you have the power to change it. What you are saying is that the new people shouldn't.

I don't think it gets any more un-American than that... and I hope I've helped you see this.

Being born here doesn't give you any more rights than being naturalized.


"No race has ever been won in the first corner, but plenty have been lost there."

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September 23, 2006, 01:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by DvlsAdvc8
Johnny, what we are talking about are two things: our principles and our culture.

Our principles are things like freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc. Our culture are things like the "protestant work ethic" or celebrating Christmas, Halloween, Thanksgiving... Lent... or high reaching ideas like Tolerance and opportunity.

I honestly don't feel that anyone I've met here is a racist or full of hate. But chain letters like this are like the road to hell, paved with good intentions. We like things the way they are, they've been successful... we're rich... you want to come here, so be like us. But that's not what made us rich. What made us rich is in fact our static principles, not many of these cultural things you think need defending. So what if an immigrant family speaks Spanish? It's useful for them to learn English, and they probably will eventually (is it easy for you to learn a new language?). Similarly, if you live in an area dominated by people who speak spanish, its probably advantageous to you to learn spanish. It's not about a national language. You should learn, what it is advantageous to you to learn. There is incentive. Government should act in accordance to the nature of its people, if a major share of the population speaks spanish, while the other half speaks english... yeah, signs should be in two languages. This only seems to be a problem in the Xenophobic US... Europeans have had this for years without complaint. So maybe there's something more going on... maybe its not just about the language huh?

You ask "what gives them the right to change this country into the very thing they just left"? Put simply... they live here now. This is now their home. They, like everyone else, want what they think is best. They might be wrong... but the great thing about this country is that they can do their damndest to make themselves heard. They have the same right to change this country as you or I do. You know, the DBA in the office next to me just became an American citizen last month. He honestly thinks I'm a heathen... but passing that citizenship test was clearly one of the happiest moments for him when he talked about it at work the next day. He doesn't have to agree with me. I can't stand half of his ideas, but because I believe firmly that the best ideas will eventually prevail... that you CAN trust in the people.

It's all about the dialogue... the challenge of living in such a dynamic society. I'm presented with this chain letter and disagreeing with it, am presenting an alternate view. This goes on hundreds of thousdands of times a day in hundreds of message boards, coffee shops, work places and living rooms.

It seems your understanding of what this country is about is a little off. We don't trust in God. The principle is freedom of religion. I am certainly included in the "WE" as a US citizen, and I certainly don't trust in God. The only REASON for what you claim is simply that the majority is. Yet another principle... given all forms of rule, the best form found to date is majority rule, with protection for minorities.

To further open your mind, "In God We Haven't Trusted". The motto was added to the coins in the 1950's over the communist scare (in fact, this is also when "In God We Trust" BECAME the motto). The fear was that the communist party in the US would come to power, and in order to differentiate the US from godless communism and expose communists as outsiders, "In God We Trust" was added. 100% truth. It's only been there for about 50 years... that's what I call being founding on. Even more, the pledge of Allegiance was also changed. The original version didn't have so much disruption... "one nation, under god, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all"... sure has a funky awkward number of pauses doesn't it? Well that's because the original DID NOT HAVE "UNDER GOD" in it. It was inserted... probably by more people who don't seem to understand the greatness of the founding fathers. The original motto, ironically comes from a poem that implies socialism. E Pluribus Unum... which is latin for "From many... one" (original meaning was labor related... the fruits of our labor go to one effort). Unfortunately, civics classes in this country suck.

The idea about America is that you have the power. The People have the power. Think something should be different, you have the power to change it. What you are saying is that the new people shouldn't.

I don't think it gets any more un-American than that... and I hope I've helped you see this.

Being born here doesn't give you any more rights than being naturalized.
We're talking about the same thing Brad. You can't honestly think that these "changes" are the "best ideas" so they preveil. What good can come of a drivers license picture taken of woman with her face COVERD. We use ID's for everything. You would sing a very very very different tune if your wifes bank card was stolen by that woman and all of your funds were suddenly gone. This day in age the woman would more then likely get off of any charges because no one would be able to prove it wasn't your wife useing the card.

Yes Europe has signs in 2 languages but so do we. That isn't the issue. When we visit over seas we ATTEMPT to fit into that culture by doing our best to speak their language and do the things the way their society does them. We don't go over, refuse to speak their language, all but spit on their culture and raise holy hell over it but thats what happens here.

You say they have the right come here and attempt to create the very thing they just left because they live here now. Bullshit sir!! It's not like they were sitting in their living room over seas and got a pamplet in the mail that offered a vaction to America so they decided that looks nice I think I'll go over there. No. The fact is America offers what no other country does ..... unadultrated FREEDOM. The ability to enter a country and become a part of it and do nothing more then pass a citizens test makes the offer very attractive since all we ask in return is that you CONTRIBUTE to society. Not change it and bend it and rework the system until it's just like the very place they wanted to leave in the first place.

There is a fine line between adding to the American Soup of society and shitting in it.


God Speed Jeff! You'll never be forgotten.

BOOSTZX3 : in all seriousness head injuries ain't no joke. I've had around 10 concussions and now I ride a Buell Don't let it happen to you!
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DvlsAdvc8's Avatar
 
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September 24, 2006, 01:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnySpeed954
We're talking about the same thing Brad. You can't honestly think that these "changes" are the "best ideas" so they preveil.
Be specific, what changes are you referring to, the driver's license thing? See below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnySpeed954
What good can come of a drivers license picture taken of woman with her face COVERD. We use ID's for everything.
No good, I agree. And if you look up the cases where this has happened, they are denied a license if they don't show their face... and in a single case where a license was given in Florida WITH covering, the license was later revoked. Doesn't sound like a problem. There is a lawsuit pending, brought by that woman saying it violates her religious expression, but you know what? It will fail. Your religion doesn't require you to drive. Either she gives up on the religious issue, or she doesn't drive... very simple, and the need for good identification is maintained. This is much a do about nothing, because of confusion as it relates to religious beliefs which everyone *wants* to respect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnySpeed954
Yes Europe has signs in 2 languages but so do we. That isn't the issue. When we visit over seas we ATTEMPT to fit into that culture by doing our best to speak their language and do the things the way their society does them. We don't go over, refuse to speak their language, all but spit on their culture and raise holy hell over it but thats what happens here.
Did you immigrate to Europe and not tell us? We're not talking about tourists. We talking about immigrants. An immigrant is someone who is now a part of our society, and once naturalized, should have just as much voice as to how our system should be as you do. Ya know, that Democracy thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnySpeed954
You say they have the right come here and attempt to create the very thing they just left because they live here now. Bullshit sir!! It's not like they were sitting in their living room over seas and got a pamplet in the mail that offered a vaction to America so they decided that looks nice I think I'll go over there. No. The fact is America offers what no other country does ..... unadultrated FREEDOM. The ability to enter a country and become a part of it and do nothing more then pass a citizens test makes the offer very attractive since all we ask in return is that you CONTRIBUTE to society. Not change it and bend it and rework the system until it's just like the very place they wanted to leave in the first place.

There is a fine line between adding to the American Soup of society and shitting in it.
Yes, they have that right because they live here now... no bullshit. And as much as you might not like it, once you are a citizen you have as much say in this country as anyone else. That's a fact.

If you want to change that, then maybe you should start reading those works I mentioned in the previous post. I think there are some Nativist Neo-Nazi and KKK groups that would appreciate your help in their efforts at maintaining your way of life. Because the ideas in that chain letter are the exact same ideas these groups are promoting.

Every citizen of this country has a right to try and shape this nation in whatever way they see fit.


"No race has ever been won in the first corner, but plenty have been lost there."

Last edited by DvlsAdvc8; September 24, 2006 at 01:34 AM..
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