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Emotion vs Logic vs Experience
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otb
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Emotion vs Logic vs Experience - January 16, 2013, 07:05 AM

One of the problems I have in my work is a lot of drive time; it gives me too much time to muse, ruminate and cogitate. So the non-stop brouhaha over "gun control" since the latest shootings has gotten me a little worked up; I guess I need to vent on paper, if for nothing more than my own edification.

You may have noticed that since I joining this forum, I have kept away from most controversies, flame wars and shouting matches and kept my comments to rides and riding. I hate the nastiness that develops in some of the opinion threads, so I'll try to keep things within the realm of my own experiences, rather than just spew forth my own ignorance.

A little about me:
I was born in the early 1950's in a tiny town in northern Minnesota to a mother who grew up on a farm during the Great Depression and a father that fought in WWII and Korea. We were dirt poor white trash. I had my first BB gun at 4, my first 22 rifle at 6. I learned shooting safety and fire discipline from before I had my first gun; we hunted for food, never for "sport"; you shot it, you went and got it and cleaned it, and God forbid you only wounded it, because my father doled out ammo one at a time. Loaded guns were in many rooms of the house; we NEVER thought of them as anything but tools, not toys. I once shot a squirrel out of a tree "because I could" and when my friend blabbed about it, my old man beat the tar out of me and I was grounded for months.

My father once decked a guy in our group who forgot muzzle discipline at "accidentally" pointed a gun at another member of the camp. The guy was told to "go home and don't come back". Everybody I knew was serious about weapons.

In high school, we had out own shooting and archery teams and competed against other schools; in college, I was on the college shooting team.

So you can see I was pretty much steeped in "the gun culture".

My experiences:

I moved out to the Baltimore area in 1982, and have lived here ever since. When I married, my wife had grown up in New York, and hated bikes and guns; that is what SHE grew up with....guns bad, motorcycles bad.

I guess my cooking made up for the negatives.

She would occasionally go riding BUT she had NO interest in learning to shoot. She eventually asked me to get rid of my guns, as they made her nervous and anxious. I tried to argue, persuade and use logic, but to no avail. Against my better judgement, but in the name of marital peace, I made an arrangement with a friend to sell my guns to him, with the proviso that I could buy them back if I wanted to.

A few months later, at 3am, we had an uninvited visitor to our home who decided that he needed what we had more than we did. It was a busy Friday night, the 911 plea for help was answered....22 minutes later. During that time we barricaded ourselves in the bedroom... and prayed he just wanted our stuff. After the police showed up, took a report and left my wife turned to me and said "That was the longest 20 minutes of my life; he could have done anything he wanted to, couldn't he?" I just nodded.

She then turned to me and said "Can you get OUR guns back, and can you teach me how to shoot?"

There is the old saw about "What do you call a Liberal that's been robbed?"....Answer: An new NRA member;....laugh, but it's true.

Since that time, my wife and I have had to defend ourselves in our home from the same fella; he was caught and locked up, but thought he would come back years later after he was released and wreak his revenge, although this time the outcome was different from what he had anticipated.

Over the last 25 years, my wife and I have owned a retail business and a bar and restaurant; during those years we have had to use guns two other times to defend our lives and property.

You can rely on 911 if you want; that is your right. The fact of the matter is, there are bad people out there; you deal with them your way, I'll deal with them mine; just don't infringe on MY right to defend myself and family.

I'll rely on 1911.

PS; for those of you that think that you cannot become proficient at arms; my wife had never shot in her life; within a few hours of safety training and 2 boxes of ammo, she became an excellent shot with her 4" SW 357 mag.

Just ask the schmo that broke in a second time.


Respectfully submitted,

OTB


Riding fast bikes slowly since 1969....
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January 16, 2013, 07:17 AM

I always enjoy your posts, but this one more than most.


My wife "tolerated" my guns, but was never interested in shooting them. She made annoyed faces when I carried my gun to Busch gardens, the grocery store, and whatnot. Watching the news occasionally got her to a point of "One of these days, I want to learn to shoot. One of these days, One of these days."

Never moved any further.

Then Newtown, CT happened, and the mama bear in her came out. That very night she said "I need to learn to shoot now, and I need a gun." She was baffled that it took so long for police to enter the school. This was a common thing for her... musing on police response times in the minutes when life/death is a matter of seconds.
Since then, she's had some instruction, had some range time, and spent a whole lot of time getting familiar with her new Glock 19.


-Fitz

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January 16, 2013, 07:32 AM

New York has already passed a new law, one that also infringes onto Doctor Patient Confidentiality. Lovely.
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January 16, 2013, 07:44 AM

Hey I am with you OTB, I think you make extremely valid points. I do NOT believe in the police. I know a few are and a couple of them are riders. Those I believe in but still they are not going to make it to the house to protect you fast enough.

I say it like this, you have one time in your life where something is broken into and stolen and you will think differently. I am 28yrs old, and I do not believe in just shooting at someone for no reason and that nonsense, but to me the VA rule which is you must wait until you feel threatened or physical interaction is about to happen is NEVER going to fly with me. I am shooting automatically and thats the bottom line. its 2 people in my house. If I hear a 3rd, its over....point blank.

I am about defending what I own and bought with my hard earned money. People talk about hard times and being broke and homeless....still does not constitute you taking someone else property. There are MANY jobs out here....but they just are not what YOU want to do.

I currently own 2 pistols but have been looking into something for the wife as she too is NOT very fond of guns. I thought about getting her a Ruger Mark III 22/45 Lite just so she can get the feel then let her shoot mine. But I feel that she should know....its IMPORTANT.

All in all, I fully understand you and your thoughts and I totally agree. Defend what you own...bottom line.


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January 16, 2013, 08:00 AM

Not putting down the popo but realistically the they are there for the clean up and paperwork most of the time.


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January 16, 2013, 08:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodge131 View Post
Not putting down the popo but realistically the they are there for the clean up and paperwork most of the time.
Yep. This.

I'm sure if an officer happened to be down the block from my house when it was being invaded, he'd assist. But the reality is that when seconds count, the police are minutes away.


-Fitz

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January 16, 2013, 08:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitz View Post
I'm sure if an officer happened to be down the block from my house when it was being invaded, he'd assist. But the reality is that when seconds count, the police are minutes away.
And at these moments in time, seconds feel like hours and minutes like days.

IMO it is not the police officers job to keep every single person safe on the street. When he/she arrives to help on a call, I don't expect that person to handle a firearm better than me or to risk their life to help save mine.
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January 16, 2013, 08:35 AM

Personally I can't wait for guns to be outlawed so we can get back to what's important. LOLcats and Rossi's upcoming failure at Yamaha.


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January 16, 2013, 08:46 AM

The irrational use emotion, the inexperienced attempt to use logic, and the experienced know better.
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January 16, 2013, 09:12 AM

On a serious note, my upbringing was much like OTB's. Guns were all around, but since most of us were hunters we knew 2 things: 1) Don't point it at what you don't want dead. 2) Don't touch a firearm when Dad's not around unless you want your ass beaten.

It wasn't out of the ordinary to see guns in racks out in the parking lot during deer season when kids were going hunting after school. But Luke Woodham's shooting at Pearl HS in '97 changed all that. That shooting gets swept under the rug quickly because it was ended by an assistant principle who retrieved a 1911 from his car.

I think that's a proof that staring down the pipe of a .45 will make you reconsider some decisions. Woodham found Jesus shortly thereafter, unfortunately only on the metaphorical sense.


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January 16, 2013, 09:20 AM

Growing up around guns in California was a mixed bag. On the one hand, like stillie, I gained an early respect for them, and never fucked around

On the other hand, someone hears you mention going shooting with daddy , you'll end up in a conference with the principal, a cop, and my stepfather saying "yeah, I'm taking him shooting. Tell me why it's any of your fucking business"


-Fitz

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January 16, 2013, 09:34 AM

Too many changes have been taking place in America the past few years. Things are heading in a scary direction.


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January 16, 2013, 07:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naked_Biker View Post
Too many changes have been taking place in America the past few years. Things are heading in a scary direction.
They are chasing the illusion of safety. The world will be one big happy place if nobody can legally own a gun. Nobody would ever use an illegal gun.

If that isn't looking at the world through rose colored glasses then I don't know what is. Wishing for everybody to be safe isn't going to make it happen.

Thanks for reminding me that I want to go sign up for a beginners class.


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January 16, 2013, 08:10 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MudDawg View Post

They are chasing the illusion of safety. The world will be one big happy place if nobody can legally own a gun. Nobody would ever use an illegal gun.

If that isn't looking at the world through rose colored glasses then I don't know what is. Wishing for everybody to be safe isn't going to make it happen.

Thanks for reminding me that I want to go sign up for a beginners class.
Come to the range with me. I'll get you squared away free. Then you can take the online class for your permit

We will start with a short bit of instruction , then move into the range. Local one in stafford also has a few machine guns we can rent


-Fitz

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January 16, 2013, 08:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitz View Post
Come to the range with me. I'll get you squared away free. Then you can take the online class for your permit

We will start with a short bit of instruction , then move into the range. Local one in stafford also has a few machine guns we can rent
I have to drive down your way on Sunday. Let me know if you'd have some time in the afternoon. (Indoor is in the morning, unload, shower, pack, then I could hit the road to drop by.)

Be warned, I'm a mental type. I like learning what to do, as well as the rational behind it. Once I get all of that processed I can generally come up to speed pretty quickly.


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