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Fleeing sportbike rider shot to death by DC police
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Fleeing sportbike rider shot to death by DC police - September 13, 2016, 07:22 AM

Video released in NW DC police-involved shooting | WUSA9.com

DC Officer Shoots, Kills Motorcyclist Who Rammed Cruiser, Police Said | NBC4 Washington


It happened a few days ago. One witness says the police took potshots at the biker after the biker dented to police car as it tried to pin him in (to prevent escape). The police say the biker "rammed" the police car. More details are still coming in, but it looks a bit fishy- supposedly no cruiser or body cameras turned on, and street justice meted out.
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September 13, 2016, 08:31 AM

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September 13, 2016, 08:42 AM

If you don't run from the police or use your vehicle as a battering ram, you won't get shot. How hard is that to understand? Are the police supposed to wait until you injure or kill one of them or a bystander with your stupidity before they put an end to it?

Even if the motorcyclist didn't intend to ram the police cruiser, that just proves that he was not in proper control of his vehicle and could have injured or killed a pedestrian if they had been there instead of the police cruiser.

Please don't take this the wrong way, as it is a horrible tragedy that a fellow motorcyclist died at the hands of police. It is sad that the motorcyclist felt that fleeing and then running into a police car was his best course of action.


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September 13, 2016, 09:10 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2blueyam View Post
If you don't run from the police or use your vehicle as a battering ram, you won't get shot. How hard is that to understand? ................It is sad that the motorcyclist felt that fleeing and then running into a police car was his best course of action.
Sure, running was a bad call on the part of the sportbike rider, and I am not lauding how he apparently handled things. It's just hard to determine what happened without the cameras, which were (supposedly) turned off. It seems to me that, from the lack of damage to bike and police cruiser, that there was no "ramming"; the strike to the cruiser was incidental to the cruiser's maneuver to pin the bike, and the shooting transpired AFTER that (according to a witness). Should we believe this ramming business merely because the police say it was so? I seems so easy to justify this killing because the biker was riding like an ass, and by proxy "he got what was coming to him".

I think a majority of the people on this site have taken some action to avoid responsibility for traffic infractions at some point. Except for the denting a police car part. Still, shooting to kill under such a circumstance seems out of line to me. This isn't Texas. Am I wrong?

I don't think he thought it was his best course of action, and intended to use his motorcycle as a battering ram, and I think that part of the story is a fabrication.

Last edited by phogroian; September 13, 2016 at 09:30 AM..
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September 13, 2016, 10:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2blueyam View Post
If you don't run from the police or use your vehicle as a battering ram, you won't get shot. How hard is that to understand?
So you're saying it's OK for to police to shoot people that are fleeing from a traffic violation? OK.

Also you ride a bike; a sportbike can be a "battering ram" against a car? OK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2blueyam View Post
Are the police supposed to wait until you injure or kill one of them or a bystander with your stupidity before they put an end to it?
Is the only way to "put an end" to a situation is to kill a citizen? There's no such thing as deescalation right? OK.

Are you a cop? You sure sound like one...

Quote:
Originally Posted by phogroian View Post
Sure, running was a bad call on the part of the sportbike rider, and I am not lauding how he apparently handled things. It's just hard to determine what happened without the cameras, which were (supposedly) turned off. It seems to me that, from the lack of damage to bike and police cruiser, that there was no "ramming"; the strike to the cruiser was incidental to the cruiser's maneuver to pin the bike, and the shooting transpired AFTER that (according to a witness). Should we believe this ramming business merely because the police say it was so? I seems so easy to justify this killing because the biker was riding like an ass, and by proxy "he got what was coming to him".
Exactly.


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September 13, 2016, 12:34 PM

If the story occurred as stated the tragedy lies with the actions of the rider. However if the situation is not on tape that provides a lot of room for doubt as to the legitimacy of the now one sided story.

There is no legitimate reason for body and car cams to not be running at all times when a cop is on duty. It protects them just like it protects the public. The instant I hear that one wasn't working, was turned off, or not equipped, it raises my eyebrow in skepticism. Do they go on patrol with guns that aren't working?


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September 13, 2016, 12:41 PM

First, while I may have done things to help prevent myself from being detected or ticketed as a speeder, it never has and never will get anywhere close to evasion.

Even the witness who is clearly not a friend of the Police said the motorcycle hit the police car, so that did happen.

I agree that not all of the facts are in yet. I apologize for jumping to any conclusions. I should not have used the term battering ram, as that is inflammatory and really not necessary.

Here are some of the facts:
  • A young man is dead
  • The young man could have done things differently to prevent his won death. I could list them, but you should be able to come up with a good list on your own.
  • The police vehicle was hit by the motorcyclist
  • Evading the police goes significantly beyond speeding. It is a felony for a reason.

Here is some opinion:
  • While riding at the speeds necessary to flee police you could injure someone in a car or cause another motorist to swerve to avoid hitting you and having them crash, or you could hit a pedestrian, etc.
  • Evading the police is a dangerous and risky business (this is close to a fact)
  • The officers may have been able to deescalate the situation without the use of deadly force
  • It is unfortunate that the officer felt the need to discharge his firearm, but without being there or having the entire event on film, there is no way to really know if it was justified or if he should have used more restraint.
  • The rider may have injured or killed someone (himself, the officer or someone else) if he was not stopped at this point in the chase.
  • The city will likely pay out some money to the victim's family and their lawyers will take a good chunk of it
  • This will be another example for both sides of the police argument to dig their heels in over.

As I stated, this is a horrible tragedy. Hopefully we can all work together to find a way to end this type of violence, but it will take both sides working towards trust and respect for each other. That isn't going to be easy in the current environment.


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September 13, 2016, 04:35 PM

After seeing the 'ramming' damage to the police cruiser, and I put ramming in quotes because the damage amounted to not much more than what we would get if someone bumped into you in a parking lot while backing out, I can't say in any way that the rider's murder was justified.

This wasn't a case of a felony pursuit or a high speed pursuit. Deadly force was far from justified here.




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September 13, 2016, 07:20 PM

If the cop was standing next to or behind the door and outside of the cruiser when the impact occurred that would lend a lot of credence to claim of a justified shooting. If he was inside the CAR at the time of impact and then got out and shot that would be a different situation all together. Which one if either occurred I don't know. If we had footage of the incident we'd know though.


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September 13, 2016, 08:02 PM

The cops were equipped with body cameras at the time. But they were not turned on at the time. That is according to the news report I heard on the radio.
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September 13, 2016, 10:16 PM

But according to the reporter of that video. The police who killed a motorcyclist did not have body camera.
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September 14, 2016, 01:12 AM

What most likely happened is the cop pulled out in front of the bike to try to stop him, the bike didn't stop in time, hit the door, which in the legal eye can be seen as assault, which prompted them to shoot him.

And for the people that are saying he shouldn't have ran, thats all fine and dandy, but what happens if the cop wants to pull you over, you don't see him for whatever reason because the sun is in your mirrors, and you accelerate, so he interprets you as running, then pulls ahead of you and you have to slam on the brakes and tap his cruiser? Should he be able to open fire on you?

And really, I don't believe the whole thing about the rider eventually going to injure some bystander. I hear this all the time as a what if, but I never actually hear about this being a huge problem. But I do see people texting and driving all the time, and I know that distracted driving is the number one cause of accidents, and I have yet to see the cop pull over someone for texting and driving.
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September 14, 2016, 09:39 AM

Dup post

Last edited by phogroian; September 14, 2016 at 09:54 AM..
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September 14, 2016, 09:51 AM

Come on DC. Don't dissappoint or is it that DC is full of well to do folks so there won't be any rioting?

The "ole sun in the mirror trick" to explain away running huh? Tough to explain in the middle of the night.

Based on the damage I saw, hardly looks like a justifiable shoot....but he would be alive if he didn't run.
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September 14, 2016, 09:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2blueyam

....Even the witness who is clearly not a friend of the Police said the motorcycle hit the police car.....


I do take exception to this bit. What did the witness say or do to indicate that she is "clearly not a friend of the Police"? Is the witness' statement suspect because she is black? Because the statement is different than the initial one that the MPD released?

Second DC police officer placed on leave in shooting of unarmed man - Story | WTTG

"Kandace Simms said she had just picked up a friend and was sitting in the right-hand lane waiting at the traffic light at 3rd and M Streets."So I pulled up to the light and I was there by myself for some time and some cars were coming behind me, but then I saw a motorcycle come on the left of me and then the police car blocked the motorcycle, so they kind of came at the same exact time,” said Simms. “The motorcycle was trying to speed off and drive away, but he couldn't because he was kind of caught in between the sidewalk at the curb and the police car. So the police were trying to open the passenger side door and he couldn't because the motorcycle was right there, and I guess when he couldn't open the door, he rolled down his window and shot twice.”
Simms said her windows were rolled down and she heard no commands coming from the officer in the cruiser. She said she saw the motorcycle strike the cruiser once.
“It did, but that is because they blocked him,” she said. “The police car wasn't right there when I pulled up."
According to Simms, she believes the collision looked unavoidable."
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