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Good Article on Taxes
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Meh
 
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Good Article on Taxes - December 7, 2012, 06:53 AM

Peter Schiff: The Fantasy of a 91% Top Income Tax Rate - WSJ.com

Lets go after the rich some more.
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December 7, 2012, 08:46 AM

Interesting piece

He comes up short on the tax shelter side of the equation.

Yes, they were pretty much created in the 50's and fairly simply to put together.

They are much more complex nowadays, but shelter much more money as well.


Reality is that if you hit a certain income threshold, you only pay the taxes you want no matter what the fed says.


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December 7, 2012, 09:08 AM

The solution to our problems, of course, is a hybrid method.

Tax hikes / elimination of deducs and loopholes alone won't solve the problem.

Neither will spending cuts alone.

Neither side willing to give.


Plus, some folks just straight up ignore historical precedent. For example, when capital gains tax was dropped to 15% (or was it 14%), revenues actually went up.

Now we're ttalking about raising it again.


-Fitz

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December 7, 2012, 09:14 AM

The big part he glosses over is income distribution and inequality. In the 1950's, executives made 300% of a what the typical floor worker made. That has become stratified over time and now is routinely 300 times higher. It's a natural function of capitalism that power consolidates over time and rent seeking behavior develops. It's unfortunate though in that it usually coincides with reduced economic output.
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December 7, 2012, 09:23 AM

The solutions to our problems are:
- A Constitution Amendment that does not allow America to carry Public and Intra-Governental debt equaling more than 70% of its GDP unless at war or a declared national emergency, and strive to achieve a nominal 50% debt-ratio.

- Not including Bond Obligations, The Government must allocate no less than 10% of its revenue to the repayment of debt each year with a goal of reducing the principal.

- Finally, a comprehensive overhaul of the US Tax Code.
Unfortunately there is a large and powerful industry and lobby built around keeping the code as cryptic as possible.



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December 7, 2012, 09:28 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by big_sur View Post
The big part he glosses over is income distribution and inequality. In the 1950's, executives made 300% of a what the typical floor worker made. That has become stratified over time and now is routinely 300 times higher. It's a natural function of capitalism that power consolidates over time and rent seeking behavior develops. It's unfortunate though in that it usually coincides with reduced economic output.
This much is true. The compensation gap between worker/non-officer and Director/Executive at most public companies has SKYROCKETED in the last 30 years.



“Any man who tries to be good all the time is bound to come to ruin among the great number who are not good. Hence a Prince who wants to keep his authority must learn how not to be good, and use that knowledge, or refrain from using it, as necessity requires”.

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December 7, 2012, 09:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitz View Post
The solution to our problems, of course, is a hybrid method.

Tax hikes / elimination of deducs and loopholes alone won't solve the problem.

Neither will spending cuts alone.

Neither side willing to give.


Plus, some folks just straight up ignore historical precedent. For example, when capital gains tax was dropped to 15% (or was it 14%), revenues actually went up.

Now we're ttalking about raising it again.
It's not so much that neither side is willing to give, it's that Boehner doesn't have control of his caucus. Boehner is a politician, not an ideologue. He'll make a deal. It's the tea party morons that don't understand economics, policy, or governance that are stupid enough to drive the car off the cliff and they don't fall in line. That's what scuttled the negotiations the first time and could very well scuttle them this time. The Price of Politics by Bob Woodward - great book on the 2011 negotiations
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December 7, 2012, 09:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by big_sur View Post
It's not so much that neither side is willing to give, it's that Boehner doesn't have control of his caucus. Boehner is a politician, not an ideologue. He'll make a deal. It's the tea party morons that don't understand economics, policy, or governance that are stupid enough to drive the car off the cliff and they don't fall in line. That's what scuttled the negotiations the first time and could very well scuttle them this time. The Price of Politics by Bob Woodward - great book on the 2011 negotiations
The non-tea party 'morons' on both sides are the ones who got us to this precipice over many years and election cycles. Based on that track record, I wouldn't say that their grasp of economics is significantly lacking relative to their peers.

Until a majority realizes that both spending cuts (with everything on the table) and revenue increases are the only way out of this, we'll continue on this path, even if the cliff is avoided. The article just re-iterates that how empty the rhetoric has become regarding taxing the rich. The notion that a $250,000 household (in DC area, of all places) is rich, is ridiculous. There will be unintended consequences that will disproportionately hit small business owners, while the billionaires will just move their money elsewhere to avoid the major tax consequences.

The balanced approach is our best shot, and probably the most unpopular/painful option.

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December 7, 2012, 10:12 AM

Blame the tea party all you want, but the democrats have continually stonewalled on entitlement reform as well.


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December 7, 2012, 10:19 AM

Quote:
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Blame the tea party all you want, but the democrats have continually stonewalled on entitlement reform as well.
Of course. They're confident that blame for going over the fiscal cliff will be placed squarely on the other side of the aisle. It's easier and more profitable to play politics than to solve a problem with a universally unpopular solution.
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December 7, 2012, 10:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by scarab View Post
The non-tea party 'morons' on both sides are the ones who got us to this precipice over many years and election cycles. Based on that track record, I wouldn't say that their grasp of economics is significantly lacking relative to their peers.

Until a majority realizes that both spending cuts (with everything on the table) and revenue increases are the only way out of this, we'll continue on this path, even if the cliff is avoided. The article just re-iterates that how empty the rhetoric has become regarding taxing the rich. The notion that a $250,000 household (in DC area, of all places) is rich, is ridiculous. There will be unintended consequences that will disproportionately hit small business owners, while the billionaires will just move their money elsewhere to avoid the major tax consequences.

The balanced approach is our best shot, and probably the most unpopular/painful option.
The reference I made is derived from their willingness in the 2011 negotiations to not raise the debt ceiling and let the US default on its debt which is retarded.

Also, the notion that the tax hike will disproportionately affect "small business owners" is mostly propaganda.
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December 7, 2012, 10:40 AM

Quote:
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Also, the notion that the tax hike will disproportionately affect "small business owners" is mostly propaganda.
Inconclusive, at best. LLC revenues flow through to individual tax returns, so a business profit combined with an salaried income and an income from a spouse, and you're going to include a large number of small business owners. It's not expected to affect as many working professionals (e.g. tradesmen, consultants), but plenty of 10-20 employee companies will be netted in this. Almost all of the CPAs I've spoken with in the past 3 months have confirmed this is true for many of their SMB clients based upon 2013 projections.
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December 7, 2012, 10:54 AM

FactCheck.org : Boehner’s Big Stretch on Small Business
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December 7, 2012, 10:58 AM

So, the final paragraph of that article:

"As we’ve always said, Republicans do have a point when they say raising individual tax rates results in raising taxes on business owners whose business income flows through to their personal returns. And standard economic theory holds that raising business taxes tends to dampen employment to some degree. But rather than stick to the facts, Boehner and other Republicans exaggerate greatly the number of employers who would be affected by raising taxes on upper-income individuals."


So your quibble, then, is exaggeration?


-Fitz

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December 7, 2012, 11:11 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitz View Post
So, the final paragraph of that article:

"As we’ve always said, Republicans do have a point when they say raising individual tax rates results in raising taxes on business owners whose business income flows through to their personal returns. And standard economic theory holds that raising business taxes tends to dampen employment to some degree. But rather than stick to the facts, Boehner and other Republicans exaggerate greatly the number of employers who would be affected by raising taxes on upper-income individuals."


So your quibble, then, is exaggeration?
It's 3% of the population. I wouldn't call that a proportionately large number.
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