DCSportbikes.net  
» Help Support .NET!
DCSportbikes Premier Membership for 25$ per year. Discounts! Click here for full information.

Now available in the .NET Shop:



Get your DCSBN Gear!
» Shoutbox
Sorry, only registered users have the ability to use our real-time shoutbox to chat with other members.

Register now, it's free!
» Online Users: 551
1 members and 550 guests
CrazyMotorcycleGuy
Most users ever online was 4,519, September 2, 2015 at 03:26 AM.
Go Back   DCSportbikes.net > Non-Sportbike Forums > Non-Sportbike Chat

Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools
Got a better idea on taxes? Share it.
Unread
  (#1)
Say Jur Oh
 
Seijirou's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,809
Join Date: April 27, 2003
Location: Herndon, VA
Got a better idea on taxes? Share it. - May 3, 2010, 08:19 AM

Personally, I'm an advocate of the Fair Tax, or some form of consumption tax, and getting rid of the income tax.

My only caveat, to a consumption tax on absolutely everything, is that there should be Federal duty-free stores (much like Virginia has ABC stores to buy liquor) where basic needs essentials can be purchased tax free. This gives a tax break to those who can only afford to buy bargain brand clothing and food items. Single-ply toilet paper, etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillie View Post
I'm not saying this site has a bunch of gay dudes on it but a few of you definitely lack a bumpstop on the sexuality gate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillie View Post
Here is my anus! Deliver thy penis unto it!


Greg "BamBam" Walker
September 11th 2009
You are missed
Godspeed
  Send a message via AIM to Send a message via AIM to Seijirou  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#2)
Meh
 
Posts: 7,983
Join Date: October 1, 2002
May 3, 2010, 09:12 AM

Consumption tax and while I had not thought of your idea about a separate store (it is good) I don't like the idea of the creation of another entity. Seems like more complication (although significantly less than the existing Income tax system).

Why not just set the price of clothing and goods below a certain level that are tax free.

You buy a $50 pair of shoes...you are paying tax. $30...no tax.
  Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#3)
Parkin lot pimpin'
 
EndoSJ3's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,855
Join Date: September 26, 2008
Location: Fairfax
May 3, 2010, 09:16 AM

I understand that argument but I think there are too many people who would take advantage of a system like that. I know plenty of people who are rich but cheap as hell so they would do everything to save a buck. People like that would be taking advantage of your "duty free" shops and then we'd still be in the save budget issue we have now. I mean hell, I don't care that much about brand name clothing. As long as it looks good I could give a damn what the tag on the inside says.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here and saying that there can't be only a tax on the money we spend because a lot of people just don't spend much at all regardless of how much they are paid.


2013 Kawasaki ZX-6R - back at it again
2005 Kawasaki ZX-6R (636) Lots o' Mods - SOLD


2013 Ford F-150 Ecoboost (Toy Haulin)
  MySpace.com Page Send a message via AIM to Send a message via AIM to EndoSJ3  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#4)
GP Champ
 
windblown's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,953
Join Date: June 17, 2006
Location: Shenandoah Valley, VA
May 3, 2010, 10:03 AM

Tax revenues based soley on consumption would be too variable to allow the government to operate. Income tax is good. Just eliminate all the loopholes created by exemptions.

For individuals:
1) Paid money to go to college or send your kid to college? Good for you, they'll probably make good money some day as a result. No tax breaks for you.

2) Decided to have 15 kids and it costs a small fortune to raise them? There are consquences to ones decisions in life. No tax breaks for you.

3) Wanted to give money to a charity? That's wonderful, even more so knowing you weren't gonna get a tax break for it.

For businesses:
1) Built that nice new factory in some rural area? Good for you. No tax breaks for you though. You're making plenty of money as is.

2) Decided to move your manufacturing oversees to get cheap labor and avoid taxes? Good for you. Your import tarriff will now be 100%, have a nice day.
  Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#5)
Say Jur Oh
 
Seijirou's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,809
Join Date: April 27, 2003
Location: Herndon, VA
May 3, 2010, 10:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackHatch View Post
Consumption tax and while I had not thought of your idea about a separate store (it is good) I don't like the idea of the creation of another entity. Seems like more complication (although significantly less than the existing Income tax system).

Why not just set the price of clothing and goods below a certain level that are tax free.

You buy a $50 pair of shoes...you are paying tax. $30...no tax.
That raises a lot of shades of grey situations I think? What determines the price point? MSRP or price at the register? Depending on how it's defined, stores can still play tricks to get under the tax line on some items and use it as marketing.

Maybe it wouldn't be a problem, hard to say. But it's a good idea for a variant on mine that I can think about. Thanks for sharing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillie View Post
I'm not saying this site has a bunch of gay dudes on it but a few of you definitely lack a bumpstop on the sexuality gate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillie View Post
Here is my anus! Deliver thy penis unto it!


Greg "BamBam" Walker
September 11th 2009
You are missed
Godspeed
  Send a message via AIM to Send a message via AIM to Seijirou  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#6)
Say Jur Oh
 
Seijirou's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,809
Join Date: April 27, 2003
Location: Herndon, VA
May 3, 2010, 10:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by EndoSJ3 View Post
I understand that argument but I think there are too many people who would take advantage of a system like that. I know plenty of people who are rich but cheap as hell so they would do everything to save a buck. People like that would be taking advantage of your "duty free" shops and then we'd still be in the save budget issue we have now. I mean hell, I don't care that much about brand name clothing. As long as it looks good I could give a damn what the tag on the inside says.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here and saying that there can't be only a tax on the money we spend because a lot of people just don't spend much at all regardless of how much they are paid.
There are undoubtedly going to be people buying stuff for cheap in the duty free shops that can afford an alternative.

That's actually not a problem. Remember, these duty free shops are basically Federal stores. They're supplied by the Feds, and the proceeds go to the Feds. There's nothing that says the products in these stores are less expensive on the bottom line than the same thing in another store, they just don't carry the sales tax.

Sales tax paid is not part of the profit of a retail business. In short, if you're buying at the duty-free store, you're buying straight from the Feds, the money goes to them, so there is no "tax evasion".


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillie View Post
I'm not saying this site has a bunch of gay dudes on it but a few of you definitely lack a bumpstop on the sexuality gate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillie View Post
Here is my anus! Deliver thy penis unto it!


Greg "BamBam" Walker
September 11th 2009
You are missed
Godspeed
  Send a message via AIM to Send a message via AIM to Seijirou  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#7)
Say Jur Oh
 
Seijirou's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,809
Join Date: April 27, 2003
Location: Herndon, VA
May 3, 2010, 11:08 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by windblown View Post
Tax revenues based soley on consumption would be too variable to allow the government to operate. Income tax is good. Just eliminate all the loopholes created by exemptions.

For individuals:
1) Paid money to go to college or send your kid to college? Good for you, they'll probably make good money some day as a result. No tax breaks for you.

2) Decided to have 15 kids and it costs a small fortune to raise them? There are consquences to ones decisions in life. No tax breaks for you.

3) Wanted to give money to a charity? That's wonderful, even more so knowing you weren't gonna get a tax break for it.

For businesses:
1) Built that nice new factory in some rural area? Good for you. No tax breaks for you though. You're making plenty of money as is.

2) Decided to move your manufacturing oversees to get cheap labor and avoid taxes? Good for you. Your import tarriff will now be 100%, have a nice day.

I don't know that it would be too variable honestly. I personally don't think variability would be a problem. The big problem with the consumption tax is the initial unknown. Initially, all we can do is guess on what to set the rate at, and see what happens. It would undoubtedly need adjusting the first several years.

So, the reason why I don't think the variability is an issue is this. People earn money, and they can do 2 things with it.

a. Spend it
b. Save it (savings, investments, all of this is different flavors of tucking it away in banks)

So, with a strict consumption tax, you are only taxed when you spend. This encourages people to save.

If people saved like they should, we wouldn't need the extremely expensive social security system.
If people saved like they should, the recent bank failure would not have been as severe or possibly not occurred, due to fear of the banks going insolvent.

In short, our public generally only looks at half of the problem with the US economy. That is the foolish way in which Uncle Sam uses the revenue he receives from taxes.
The other half of the problem, is that our population is for the most part grossly irresponsible with money.

A consumption tax addresses the irresponsibility problem in 2 ways. First, it encourages responsible money handling by only taxing when people spend. Second, even if people are grossly irresponsible and spend all their income without managing their savings and their future... We have a consumption tax! So they're ass is getting taxed enough due to their irresponsibility, that they essentially pay for their retirement net themselves anyway.

So, in short, variability isn't an issue because regardless of what you do, save or spend, society wins.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillie View Post
I'm not saying this site has a bunch of gay dudes on it but a few of you definitely lack a bumpstop on the sexuality gate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillie View Post
Here is my anus! Deliver thy penis unto it!


Greg "BamBam" Walker
September 11th 2009
You are missed
Godspeed
  Send a message via AIM to Send a message via AIM to Seijirou  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#8)
Meh
 
Posts: 7,983
Join Date: October 1, 2002
May 3, 2010, 11:11 AM

I agree 110%, however, most retail chains that people shop in now are large box store type entities. The repercussions from the federal government should be stern and swift if companies are found guilty of trying to circumvent the tax.

I figure the IRS could be re-tasked with enforcement and there would still be plenty of bodies to spare.
  Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#9)
Kat
Finally got a garage!
 
Kat's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,205
Join Date: March 24, 2006
Location: Fort Washington
May 3, 2010, 03:11 PM

Seijirou, the Fed Store for the poor is genius. I love the idea. I'm also a FairTax supporter, as it broadens the tax base. All drug dealers, prostitutes, and illegal immigrants getting paid under the table will also be paying taxes with every retail purchase.

What I think a lot of people miss about the FairTax is how many corporations will FLOCK to the US. I mean, no payroll taxes, no corporate taxes... This country will be a HAVEN for every institution capable of making money and creating jobs. I think the whole "illegal immigrant" problem will open up to a "How can we get these people legal to work here faster?" problem.

www.fairtax.org for those not in the know.


**Sara**
"She wont be so fuckable covered in road rash." -boomchic00

"The whore force is strong in this one."
Kevers

BamBam, I miss you more than words can say.
  Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#10)
GP Champ
 
Posts: 2,420
Join Date: June 22, 2006
Location: Pigtown, Baltimore
May 4, 2010, 09:49 AM

A duty free store is a terrible idea. Everything should be taxed and taxed on the same rate. To allow some products a tax benefit is to subsidize that industry. Tax it all. Make sure it's at the same rate. Let markets adjust.

It's simple. No loopholes. No favorites or political favors. When money changes hands, the government gets their cut.

Too variable for governments to function? BS. It's no more so than now. Further, if government were responsible they'd bank a surplus on good times to get them through the tough times... just like any Joe in a sales position or families that think past tomorrow.
  Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#11)
Meh
 
Posts: 7,983
Join Date: October 1, 2002
May 4, 2010, 10:32 AM

As much as I love all the ideas being thrown around...the unfortunate truth is that none of them will pass.
  Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#12)
GP Champ
 
windblown's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,953
Join Date: June 17, 2006
Location: Shenandoah Valley, VA
May 4, 2010, 10:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cutter View Post
A duty free store is a terrible idea. Everything should be taxed and taxed on the same rate. To allow some products a tax benefit is to subsidize that industry. Tax it all. Make sure it's at the same rate. Let markets adjust.

It's simple. No loopholes. No favorites or political favors. When money changes hands, the government gets their cut.

Too variable for governments to function? BS. It's no more so than now. Further, if government were responsible they'd bank a surplus on good times to get them through the tough times... just like any Joe in a sales position or families that think past tomorrow.
The government isn't allowed "save" money. The reason for this is that it's impossible to distingush making money from saving money. Which makes a volitale income stream extremely difficult for the government to deal with. The law is there to protect taxpayers from a goverrnment that would tax you to death and horde the money. The system isn't perfect though. It provides no real incentive for the government to be cost effective since it can't put away any money it might save for leaner times.

I agree about no loopholes. But the rest of that part of your statement is already pretty much true. Every time money changes hands the government gets a cut.

While I like the idea of a simplified tax system I have yet to see a flat tax plan that would not involve really rich people paying a lot less in taxes and everyone else paying more.
  Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#13)
TPG og
 
b00st's Avatar
 
Posts: 8,576
Join Date: October 9, 2008
Location: Hanover, PA
May 4, 2010, 11:00 AM

legalize pot. sell it in ABC-esque stores to 18 year olds and up. up the tax on Funyuns and flip flops. 3 trillion dollar surplus in about a week.
  Send a message via AIM to Send a message via AIM to b00st  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#14)
That-boy-wonder
 
datboii1der's Avatar
 
Posts: 759
Join Date: March 19, 2008
Location: Chantilly
May 4, 2010, 01:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by B00STZX3
legalize pot. sell it in ABC-esque stores to 18 year olds and up. up the tax on Funyuns and flip flops. 3 trillion dollar surplus in about a week.
Haha...good idea and it would happen, but there is too much gov't funds in illegal drugs.. IMO!!!


01 GSXR-750 - tracked by "udntno235"
07 GSXR-750 (New hotness!!)

RIP: Angie "A-Boogie" Johnson
12.15.82 - 8.2.10

Metafor Enterprises, LLC
http://www.metafor.com
http://shop.metafor.com

-"I'll cut you too short to shit"-
-"Only God can control my destiny, so I'm rolling on and looking thru the next turn"-
  MySpace.com Page Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#15)
That-boy-wonder
 
datboii1der's Avatar
 
Posts: 759
Join Date: March 19, 2008
Location: Chantilly
May 4, 2010, 01:43 PM

A simplified tax system or even fair tax systme would be great, but it's too much like right....

If it makes since our gov't can't do it, and that doesn't come down to our president(s) because they only have so much that they can do because congress still holds that precedence over them.


01 GSXR-750 - tracked by "udntno235"
07 GSXR-750 (New hotness!!)

RIP: Angie "A-Boogie" Johnson
12.15.82 - 8.2.10

Metafor Enterprises, LLC
http://www.metafor.com
http://shop.metafor.com

-"I'll cut you too short to shit"-
-"Only God can control my destiny, so I'm rolling on and looking thru the next turn"-
  MySpace.com Page Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com
All logos and trademarks in this site are property of their respective owner. The comments are property of their posters, all the rest 2002-2010 by DCSportbikes.net. DCSportbikes.net is owned by End of Time Studios, LLC.