DCSportbikes.net  
» Help Support .NET!
DCSportbikes Premier Membership for 25$ per year. Discounts! Click here for full information.

Now available in the .NET Shop:



Get your DCSBN Gear!
» Shoutbox
Sorry, only registered users have the ability to use our real-time shoutbox to chat with other members.

Register now, it's free!
» Online Users: 502
5 members and 497 guests
davidcycle, GRN96WS6, Sal_the_man, Scot, tonetone
Most users ever online was 4,519, September 2, 2015 at 03:26 AM.
Go Back   DCSportbikes.net > Non-Sportbike Forums > Non-Sportbike Chat

Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools
Has Trump succumbed to the establishment?
Unread
  (#1)
MSF Student
 
Posts: 83
Join Date: February 4, 2015
Has Trump succumbed to the establishment? - April 10, 2017, 01:07 AM

Seems like the media that was bashing Trump loves him now after following suit with a war hawkish foreign policy. He ran on a non-interventionalist foreign policy which is why many people voted for him. however, I wont be surprised if his ratings go up, especially amongst the neo-con and liberal left.

On a side note, did anyone see Nikki Haleys appeal to the UN security council? She did her best colin powell impersonation, it was like 2003 all over again!

A few questions arise for me:
-Hillary finally popped up with a big smile on her face to support the missile strikes. Are we getting the first tastes of a similar foreign policy we would of had with hillary?

-What are the implications for declaring war without going to congress.

-Tillerson has jumped back and forth between saying Assad can stay vs Assad must go. Most recently , he said again the US isnt in the business of regime change. How much does his flip flopping have to do with his upcoming meetings in Moscow?

Exciting times for sure...
  Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#2)
Your Ad Here
 
Heist's Avatar
 
Posts: 32,584
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: Washington, D.C.
April 10, 2017, 08:55 AM

Trump launched a few batteries of cruise missiles to send a message about the use of Chemical Weapons.

i. Given this second use of chemical weapons in the same conflict, I would have expected no different a directive from Hillary or any POTUS. If there's a 3rd instance, I fully expect a full-on deployment and invasion.

ii. Any President can issue military actions for up to 60-days w/o the permission of Congress, and Presidents have in fact done so wether they be military strikes and actions or covert operations into sovereign nations w/o the approval of Congress.
This, like all the those, was not a declaration of War but it could be the precipitate for one.

iii. Everything. He knows Syria is Russia's last and only partner in the Middle East. The country's location also serves a break point between NATO nations and the last friendly port between the Mediterranean Sea and Black Sea choke points.

Tillerson's best course of action in my opinion would have been to say nothing publicly on the matter other than "We must find a peaceful solution to the ongoing Syrian revolution and we reject the use of chemical weapons and any party who supports their use." until after the Moscow meeting.


The Syrian conflict is a slippery slope. The "win" strategy isn't clear. Push out Assad, and it leaves a power vacuum ripe for ISIS. Keep Assad and you leave a totalitarian tyrant in power in the Middle East who takes his cues from Russia.



“Any man who tries to be good all the time is bound to come to ruin among the great number who are not good. Hence a Prince who wants to keep his authority must learn how not to be good, and use that knowledge, or refrain from using it, as necessity requires”.

- Nicolo Machiavelli 1469-1527

  Facebook Page MySpace.com Page Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#3)
MSF Student
 
Posts: 83
Join Date: February 4, 2015
April 10, 2017, 11:01 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heist View Post
Trump launched a few batteries of cruise missiles to send a message about the use of Chemical Weapons.

i. Given this second use of chemical weapons in the same conflict, I would have expected no different a directive from Hillary or any POTUS. If there's a 3rd instance, I fully expect a full-on deployment and invasion.

ii. Any President can issue military actions for up to 60-days w/o the permission of Congress, and Presidents have in fact done so wether they be military strikes and actions or covert operations into sovereign nations w/o the approval of Congress.
This, like all the those, was not a declaration of War but it could be the precipitate for one.

iii. Everything. He knows Syria is Russia's last and only partner in the Middle East. The country's location also serves a break point between NATO nations and the last friendly port between the Mediterranean Sea and Black Sea choke points.

Tillerson's best course of action in my opinion would have been to say nothing publicly on the matter other than "We must find a peaceful solution to the ongoing Syrian revolution and we reject the use of chemical weapons and any party who supports their use." until after the Moscow meeting.


The Syrian conflict is a slippery slope. The "win" strategy isn't clear. Push out Assad, and it leaves a power vacuum ripe for ISIS. Keep Assad and you leave a totalitarian tyrant in power in the Middle East who takes his cues from Russia.
i. Thats exactly my point, Hillary would of done the same, and Obama most likey would of done the same as well, but they are war hawks that were open about it. Trump ran on a different platform however.

Reality is though, there is no evidence that the Assad government used chemical weapons. In fact, the UN investigation that took place in 2013 concluded that it was unlikely Assad used it, but more likely the "rebels" had used it

ii. Agreed, it has been a common occurence since Vietnam. Do you have any links available where I can read up more on it?

iii. Assad also has support of Iran and Hezbollah. Russia and Iran are allies as well. So I think it will be difficult and unlikely to break apart this alliance. Especially since they have so much to gain IF they win this proxy war. That will basically put hte current Oil trade upside down on its head shifting from Saudi arabia and the west to Iran /Syria/Russia. This is really all its about at the end of the day.

Regardless of what we think Assad is or not, is irrelevant. Its up to the Syrian people to decide. And fact is, the overwhemingly majority support Assad, whether we like it or not. In my opinion, however, the western media and governments are in cahoots together to demonize a person for the purpose of regime change. But thats neither here or there...
  Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#4)
Groping is a skill...
 
turkishexpress's Avatar
 
Posts: 14,997
Join Date: May 3, 2008
Location: Chicagoland
April 10, 2017, 12:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heist View Post
Trump launched a few batteries of cruise missiles to send a message about the use of Chemical Weapons.

i. Given this second use of chemical weapons in the same conflict, I would have expected no different a directive from Hillary or any POTUS. If there's a 3rd instance, I fully expect a full-on deployment and invasion.

ii. Any President can issue military actions for up to 60-days w/o the permission of Congress, and Presidents have in fact done so wether they be military strikes and actions or covert operations into sovereign nations w/o the approval of Congress.
This, like all the those, was not a declaration of War but it could be the precipitate for one.

iii. Everything. He knows Syria is Russia's last and only partner in the Middle East. The country's location also serves a break point between NATO nations and the last friendly port between the Mediterranean Sea and Black Sea choke points.

Tillerson's best course of action in my opinion would have been to say nothing publicly on the matter other than "We must find a peaceful solution to the ongoing Syrian revolution and we reject the use of chemical weapons and any party who supports their use." until after the Moscow meeting.


The Syrian conflict is a slippery slope. The "win" strategy isn't clear. Push out Assad, and it leaves a power vacuum ripe for ISIS. Keep Assad and you leave a totalitarian tyrant in power in the Middle East who takes his cues from Russia.
Trump could have cared less about the use of chemical weapons. It was an opportunity to sever himself and his administration from Russia and Putin and he took it. Putin knew exactly what was going to happen and hence his weak response. I wouldn't be surprised if the Syrians were directed to use the gas by the Russians to help out Trump. We probably spent more money on those cruise missiles than the damage they caused to the Syrian gov't.


2015 KTM Super Duke 1290 R
2013 Victory Vision Tour
K7 Gixxer 600 - Track Only
RnR Cycles Touched & Tuned


I grope suckaz!!! -
  Facebook Page Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#5)
GP Champ
 
shiphteey's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,259
Join Date: August 1, 2006
April 10, 2017, 01:37 PM

Since when are politicians held accountable for what they say or do?

They all lie, just to varying degrees.


Gemini Motorcycles (Sterling, VA)
www.GeminiMotorcycles.com

ZX14: 222 mph
ZX12: 229.6 mph
ZX10: 202.8 mph

ZX9: 177.6 mph
ZX6R: 180.8 mph
EX650: 130.7 mph

EX300: 114.7 mph
EX250: 122.4 mph
  Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#6)
MSF Student
 
Posts: 83
Join Date: February 4, 2015
April 10, 2017, 01:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiphteey View Post
Since when are politicians held accountable for what they say or do?

They all lie, just to varying degrees.

Agreed, but I feel like this time around the lying of the media and politicians is to such an egregious level that is unprecedented. and if anyone questions it, they must be a Putin ally that gets off when Assad kills babies.

For example, Tulsi Gabbard is simply saying an investigation should be done before action can be taken to see who actually is responsbile for the chemical attacks. Then you get so called liberal democrats like howard dean calling her an Assad apologist and that she should step down for collusion.

Its ridiculous what is going on in the media right now. But I dont think the majorty of americans are buying it anymore. Its just that the media is making it sound like their viewpoint is the viewpoint of hte population
  Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#7)
GP Champ
 
shiphteey's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,259
Join Date: August 1, 2006
April 10, 2017, 02:16 PM

Who controls the media?


Gemini Motorcycles (Sterling, VA)
www.GeminiMotorcycles.com

ZX14: 222 mph
ZX12: 229.6 mph
ZX10: 202.8 mph

ZX9: 177.6 mph
ZX6R: 180.8 mph
EX650: 130.7 mph

EX300: 114.7 mph
EX250: 122.4 mph
  Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#8)
Triumph-ant
 
Sal_the_man's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,164
Join Date: November 6, 2015
Location: Middletown, MD
April 10, 2017, 02:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiphteey View Post
Who controls the media?
They're all independent and free of political influence


1996 GS500E - Sold
2001 Speed Triple 955i - Sold
1999 Daytona 955i - Sold
2000 Ducati 748S
  Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#9)
MSF Student
 
Posts: 83
Join Date: February 4, 2015
April 10, 2017, 02:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiphteey View Post
Who controls the media?
True, I guess I shouldnt be surprised...
  Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#10)
Your Ad Here
 
Heist's Avatar
 
Posts: 32,584
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: Washington, D.C.
April 10, 2017, 02:56 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by shiphteey View Post
Who controls the media?
The Je...
Oh, wait. Journalist.



“Any man who tries to be good all the time is bound to come to ruin among the great number who are not good. Hence a Prince who wants to keep his authority must learn how not to be good, and use that knowledge, or refrain from using it, as necessity requires”.

- Nicolo Machiavelli 1469-1527

  Facebook Page MySpace.com Page Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#11)
Your Ad Here
 
Heist's Avatar
 
Posts: 32,584
Join Date: August 25, 2008
Location: Washington, D.C.
April 10, 2017, 03:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by turkishexpress View Post
Trump could have cared less about the use of chemical weapons. It was an opportunity to sever himself and his administration from Russia and Putin and he took it. Putin knew exactly what was going to happen and hence his weak response. I wouldn't be surprised if the Syrians were directed to use the gas by the Russians to help out Trump. We probably spent more money on those cruise missiles than the damage they caused to the Syrian gov't.
Putin absolutely was aware of the strike.
We informed Russia hours before to remove their assets from the strike package location.

But the Syrian directive by proxy through the US is an interesting twist.



“Any man who tries to be good all the time is bound to come to ruin among the great number who are not good. Hence a Prince who wants to keep his authority must learn how not to be good, and use that knowledge, or refrain from using it, as necessity requires”.

- Nicolo Machiavelli 1469-1527

  Facebook Page MySpace.com Page Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#12)
MSF Student
 
Posts: 83
Join Date: February 4, 2015
April 10, 2017, 03:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heist View Post
Putin absolutely was aware of the strike.
We informed Russia hours before to remove their assets from the strike package location.

But the Syrian directive by proxy through the US is an interesting twist.

Admittedly this was my first thought as well. But its a bit of a stretch. Frankly, I am unclear why no one is pointing at the most obvious suspects: ISIS/Alnusra/hundreds of other jihadi groups, especially since the jihadi groups from Aleppo relocated to Idlib province after Aleppo was liberated.

The moment I saw the reporting source on the ground for these attacks, the white helmets, I knew the chemical attacks were BS, given that the white helmets are a PR group for these terrorist groups like Al nusra.
  Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#13)
TNT
GP Champ
 
Posts: 1,670
Join Date: August 21, 2011
Location: Annapolis, MD
April 11, 2017, 11:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by turkishexpress View Post
Trump could have cared less about the use of chemical weapons. It was an opportunity to sever himself and his administration from Russia and Putin and he took it. Putin knew exactly what was going to happen and hence his weak response. I wouldn't be surprised if the Syrians were directed to use the gas by the Russians to help out Trump. We probably spent more money on those cruise missiles than the damage they caused to the Syrian gov't.
20 some-odd aircraft, most of which were Gen III? Nope, those are pricey birds, even if a bit dated.
  Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#14)
Don't ask me,I'm Canadian
 
C2H5OH's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,047
Join Date: January 24, 2006
Location: Old Town Alexandria
April 11, 2017, 02:25 PM

Everybody is talking about Syria, but nobody seems alarmed by the Naval strike force moved towards North Korea.


ALL MY HEROES ARE RUSSIAN...GO CAPS!

Well you see, Norm, it’s like this…A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. And when the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest members. In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Now, as we know, excessive intake of alcohol kills brain cells. But naturally, it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first. In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine. And that, Norm, is why you always feel smarter after a few beers.-Cliff Claven

  Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#15)
MSF Student
 
Posts: 83
Join Date: February 4, 2015
April 11, 2017, 04:12 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by C2H5OH View Post
Everybody is talking about Syria, but nobody seems alarmed by the Naval strike force moved towards North Korea.
Good point, messing with Syria and NK at the same time, its almost like we want Russia and China to solidify an alliance...We certainly cannot afford that...
  Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com
All logos and trademarks in this site are property of their respective owner. The comments are property of their posters, all the rest © 2002-2010 by DCSportbikes.net. DCSportbikes.net is owned by End of Time Studios, LLC.