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hmmm deal or no deal? future of Hydrogen
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hmmm deal or no deal? future of Hydrogen - November 15, 2007, 02:52 PM

http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/owning/

sounds great...$600 a month COMPLETE

thats full service
collision insurance
car

i wonder how much it would cost to fill up with hydrogen.

welcome to the future ...been hearing about this for years...finally its getting on the road.

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November 15, 2007, 03:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by yzfrone
http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/owning/

sounds great...$600 a month COMPLETE

thats full service
collision insurance
car

i wonder how much it would cost to fill up with hydrogen.

welcome to the future ...been hearing about this for years...finally its getting on the road.

bummer it's only a lease and no ownership. and at $600/mo that is not cheaper than the truck I own/am making payments on.
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November 15, 2007, 03:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegula
bummer it's only a lease and no ownership. and at $600/mo that is not cheaper than the truck I own/am making payments on.
yea one thing i didnt understand was the insurance...i wonder how you qualify for all this...

but if it gets 500 miles to a tank and it cost like $15 to fill im down!
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November 15, 2007, 03:18 PM

There was a hydrogen BMW displayed on 18th St in DC a week or so ago. Had reps talking with folks about it and whatnot. Looked cool but the first thing I thought was "great, so only rich folk can get away from high gas prices."

A $600/mo Honda?

Yeah, we're all fucked.






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November 15, 2007, 03:41 PM

Interesting, I was always under the impression that to produce the hydrogen it took a lot of power, so much so that it didnt make hydrogen much more efficient than gas.

Plus arn't there concerns about the safety of hydrogen tanks?


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November 15, 2007, 03:48 PM

1. right now the only way they make industrial hydrogen is by cracking natural gas (very energy intensive)
2. you could do it with nuclear...but hey, we all hate nuclear right?
3. a PZEV like...well, a civic? produces less pollution and co2 than a car running on hydrogen...unless that hydrogen was produced by nuclear or other (read: economically impossible, at least for the forseeable future) sources of energy like solar.
4. hydrogen is actually less flammable than gasoline--since its a lighter than air gas, rupturing a tank will result in a torch like flame, rather than a fuel spill with ensuing rapid combustion like gasoline

so hydrogen is good, but the tanks are expensive, and don't hold much...and if you produce it using normal techniques, its actually more pollusive than conventional high mileage current vehicles


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November 15, 2007, 04:01 PM

Yea! The rocket scientist proved my ASSumptions right. I am validated, I feel soo warm inside.


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November 15, 2007, 04:24 PM

http://www.scandinavianhydrogen.org/...-Agreement.asp


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November 15, 2007, 05:42 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by zx6rfool
Yea! The rocket scientist proved my ASSumptions right. I am validated, I feel soo warm inside.
not so fast there

proper conversion of high grade heat or electricity into hydrogen (from a high temperature gas reactor) and use of hydrogen in a fuel cell is more efficient in terms of thermal energy produced to mechanical energy used in a car than just about anything else, except charging batteries for said car...hydrogen is just now starting to compete with batteries in terms of storage energy vs. mass with advanced batteries...and will only get better while battery chemistry is limited...BUT both will continue to increase.

In my opinion the best possible option is to screw using low density fuels for transportation and do the following:
Use nuclear for base load applications
Use nuclear waste heat for ethanol production (since ethanol is carbon-neutral when the excess energy is supplied by a zero-carbon process) from <insert corn or at some point in the future...maybe...grass-like plants>

the biggest problem is while fuel cells and batteries are extremely efficient for generation (fuel cells) and storage (batteries)...their energy densities...SUCK! (compared to liquid fuels), and actually, the internal combustion engine isn't that bad (see diesOTTO engine, highly turbocharged diesels, miller cycle, etc and the like) in terms of efficiency compared to the round-trip fuel to mechanical efficiency of current "clean" cars (hydrogen and/or electic).

Right now, the least emissions you can get for a given mile is a PZEM...if we ever get off our asses and realize that for the billions we spend on looking for alternatives to fossil fuels we could have bought a crapload of new nuclear plants (preferably high temperature gas cooled pebble bed breeder reactors) and solved the problem....but people don't like nuclear. and those of us who design the plants refer to those people as "ignorant"

...and...cue ignorant responses


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