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This is JFK over, take a doodie on a rumway over.
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Smile This is JFK over, take a doodie on a rumway over. - March 3, 2010, 02:25 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2010/TRAVEL/03/03...ex.html?hpt=T2

"FAA: Child in air traffic tower talking to pilots 'not acceptable'"
ya think?

"A supervisor and an air traffic controller at New York's John F. Kennedy Airport are on administrative leave after one apparently brought his young child to work and the child communicated with planes on an air traffic control frequency, the Federal Aviation Administration said Wednesday."

Even though a number of years ago when IAD was owned and operated by the FAA instead of MWAA, my dad was a Crash-Fire-Rescue FF and paramedic. One evening we went to the airport, after taking a ride on one of the crash trucks, we went up into the tower over looking the entire airport. One of the coolest experiences Ill remember as a kid.
The other being on a runway right beside the BA Concorde taking off and landing.


"If brains were gas. You wouldnt have enough gas, to drive a piss-ants' motorcycle, half-way around a BB."

Last edited by WvGoDFather; March 3, 2010 at 02:27 PM..
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March 3, 2010, 04:09 PM

classic example of bureaucracy killing the dream

Dude was being an awesome Dad, getting his kid into what he does.
Was anyone really at risk with the kid on his Dad's lap parroting what he told him to say?
Now, since it is on the news, FAA will shitcan Daddy...enabling the American Dream no more

No Johnny, don't be a fireman like Dad, its too dangerous. Be an IRS agent instead....

We get yet another lesson to play by the rules, do as you are told, fill out your forms in triplicate, don't think because we already have for you etc etc. Nice values

all in all, just another brick in the wall...



It's the same people that give me dirty looks when I drop my daughter at school on the bike...you know the ones..drab suits and Camry's...


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March 3, 2010, 04:14 PM

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March 3, 2010, 04:41 PM

What bullshit! This is really just the equivalent of a train engineer letting his son toot the horn - or a police officer say "10-4" back to dispatch.

God, why do the simople things get blown completely out of proportion.

It's not as if he was letting his son run the damn tower and call out landing instructions.



“Any man who tries to be good all the time is bound to come to ruin among the great number who are not good. Hence a Prince who wants to keep his authority must learn how not to be good, and use that knowledge, or refrain from using it, as necessity requires”.

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March 3, 2010, 05:58 PM

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Originally Posted by Dutch View Post
It's the same people that give me dirty looks when I drop my daughter at school on the bike...you know the ones..drab suits and Camry's...
not a good comparison...


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March 3, 2010, 06:01 PM

I think it was awesome of his dad and the fact if he gets fired I think everyone should email them telling them to lighten up.

Half the pilots thought it was cool!!!


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March 3, 2010, 06:17 PM

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Originally Posted by Heist View Post
What bullshit! This is really just the equivalent of a train engineer letting his son toot the horn - or a police officer say "10-4" back to dispatch.

God, why do the simople things get blown completely out of proportion.

It's not as if he was letting his son run the damn tower and call out landing instructions.
props to the dad for involving his kid in his job, but i can understand why the FAA would be pissed. this involved other working parties in a decently serious and public setting. how would you feel if obama had his kids give the state of the union address, even if he was telling them what to say. or if one of your co-workers thought it would be cute to have their kids babble out a pretty serious voicemail to you... etc. you get the idea. it's not really about safety, but professionalism in a decently important/serious setting (or at the very least a setting that the FAA would like to portray as decently important/serious).
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March 3, 2010, 06:27 PM

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not a good comparison...
sorry about your Camry...


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March 3, 2010, 06:39 PM

Quote:
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props to the dad for involving his kid in his job, but i can understand why the FAA would be pissed. this involved other working parties in a decently serious and public setting. how would you feel if obama had his kids give the state of the union address, even if he was telling them what to say. or if one of your co-workers thought it would be cute to have their kids babble out a pretty serious voicemail to you... etc. you get the idea. it's not really about safety, but professionalism in a decently important/serious setting (or at the very least a setting that the FAA would like to portray as decently important/serious).

I can understand where you come from but at the same time (far as professionalism) the pilots got a kick out of it and I bet it made their day!!

I didnt hear any pilots get upset about it.

If obamas kids gave a speech that their dad was telling them to say as long as I could understand it (wasnt being slurred or w/e) then I would be ok with it.

However I do see where you are coming from but I think it was awesome!!


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March 3, 2010, 07:35 PM

The issue lies more in the fact that to talk / operate aircraft radio traffic you have to be licensed by the FAA. Plus with all that drama that has been circling air travel - the safety of flights, pilots actually piloting their planes, etc - the last thing the FAA and airlines want is another incident. I'm not saying that it wasn't an awesome father thing to do for his son, but I can also see the concern and legal issues that have been opened up by the father's actions. I'm also sshocked the supervisor of the tower allowed it to happen.

The FAA and FCC are Nazi's when it comes to compliance. The FCC would regularly monitor radio ground chatter and enforce their rules with a swift vengful hand. FAA isn't any different.


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March 3, 2010, 07:47 PM

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The FAA and FCC are Nazi's when it comes to compliance. The FCC would regularly monitor radio ground chatter and enforce their rules with a swift vengful hand. FAA isn't any different.
The FAA is nearly useless and needs to be audited, overhauled, and have a large portion of its employees shitcanned.

I can't even stress how much better Flight service stations got when Lockheed took some of that over from the FAA


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March 3, 2010, 08:07 PM

The FAA has a thing or two to learn about recruitment. They might want to start with getting kids interested.










Golden Opportunity… lost

Posted by Paul Cox on January 8th, 2010
So the airline and aviation industry has been taking it- POW- right on the chin lately. The fuel price shock, when oil rose to around 150 bucks a barrel in 2008, and then the economic downturn have added up to most of the airlines scrambling to cut capacity and farm out their operations as much as possible.

Looking at everything through a negative mindset isn’t smart, though, and one thing that this does offer us is a tremendous chance to catch up and get ahead of the power curve in one big area- air traffic controller staffing.
Sadly, the FAA is blowing their golden opportunity.

A quick history- about 4 years ago, controllers started retiring en masse. Angry at pay cuts, the lack of a negotiated contract, and the general treatment of FAA employees, they started walking away from their jobs in the biggest numbers seen in three or more decades.

The FAA scrambled to hire replacements. The agency thought it wasn’t going to have a problem, since they had over 3,000 people on their list of eligible-to-be-hired graduates of college ATC programs; unfortunately, it turns out that those college graduates knew how to read. They had kept up with the fact that the FAA had slashed pay over 30% and was treating their new hires like something you’d scrape off the bottom of your shoe.

They read reports from their fellow new hires about FAA officials going to Oklahoma City and telling the ATC trainees at the Academy (most of whom were making poverty-level wages and not getting per diem while living temporarily in a city hundreds or even thousands of miles away from home or their final permanent duty station) that they were lucky to have a job and if they didn’t like how things were going, they could just quit.

And guess what? Many of those 3,000+ college kids told the FAA to stuff it and didn’t even bother applying for the job.

The FAA then turned to hiring ex-military controllers, but there’s only so many of those, so the geniuses in charge started hiring people straight “off the street” to be controllers. Nothing wrong with OTS hires (I’m one!) but what this meant was that the college graduates who DID apply and get hired were now pissed off, because they’d spent tens of thousands of dollars on the FAA’s word that doing so was the only way they could be eligible for a controller job.

So now you’ve got an incoming workforce that’s being treated like crap who’re also angry from being lied to, and you’ve got a bunch of experienced guys who’re so disgusted that they’re retiring in droves.

And since the FAA wasn’t hiring a trainee until the journeyman controller actually left the job, and since it takes anywhere from 1 to 4 years to be fully trained, and since a significant portion of those trainees would go on to wind up washing out of training, we wound up with a staffing shortage.
We’re still critically short of controllers in some facilities, but as I said, traffic levels are down, down, down.

And that, folks, is the golden opportunity. If the fuel price shock and economy tanking hadn’t happened, we’d be utterly screwed right now from a lack of qualified controllers.

Instead, we’ve got a nice little chance to reverse the errors of the immediate past. We can keep hiring lots of new trainees and do a good job of getting them through the program. We know massive numbers of our workforce are eligible to retire in the next several years (6 years, 3 days for me, but who’s counting?) and it would make perfect sense to hire their replacements NOW, ahead of time, so we don’t fall behind like we did before.

Right? Right?

Naturally, that’s not what the FAA is doing. Instead, I’m hearing stories of the FAA contacting people just a week or three prior to their academy reporting date, telling them that they’re not going to be hired after all. (This after the folks have made all the necessary arrangements to quit their jobs, move out of their place, and trek off to the middle of the country for several months for initial training.)

At Seattle Center we’ve been told we saw our planned incoming student number for 2010 go from being 40, to 20, to 10, and now it’s down to just 2 people.

And this is happening nation-wide. The FAA, rather than being smart and getting ahead of the problem, is scaling back hiring dramatically.

We’re blowing an awesome chance, a golden opportunity, to finally fix the ATC staffing issue.


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March 3, 2010, 08:49 PM

At one point and time, you could come up and see the capt., in all his glory in the cockpit.


"If brains were gas. You wouldnt have enough gas, to drive a piss-ants' motorcycle, half-way around a BB."
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March 3, 2010, 08:51 PM

This is fagtastic it was wrong to do, but this shouldn't have made it mainstream and easily could have been dealt with by the supervisor with a slap on the wrist to make the FAA happy.

Who ever brought it to mainstream media should be getting in as much if not more shit. Nothing foul happened nor do I believe it could have; there is no way in hell a kid would be alone in a ATC tower let alone make a call unsupervised.


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March 4, 2010, 06:53 AM

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The FAA has a thing or two to learn about recruitment. They might want to start with getting kids interested.





Golden Opportunity… lost

Posted by Paul Cox on January 8th, 2010
So the airline and aviation industry has been taking it- POW- right on the chin lately. The fuel price shock, when oil rose to around 150 bucks a barrel in 2008, and then the economic downturn have added up to most of the airlines scrambling to cut capacity and farm out their operations as much as possible.

Looking at everything through a negative mindset isn’t smart, though, and one thing that this does offer us is a tremendous chance to catch up and get ahead of the power curve in one big area- air traffic controller staffing.
Sadly, the FAA is blowing their golden opportunity.

A quick history- about 4 years ago, controllers started retiring en masse. Angry at pay cuts, the lack of a negotiated contract, and the general treatment of FAA employees, they started walking away from their jobs in the biggest numbers seen in three or more decades.

The FAA scrambled to hire replacements. The agency thought it wasn’t going to have a problem, since they had over 3,000 people on their list of eligible-to-be-hired graduates of college ATC programs; unfortunately, it turns out that those college graduates knew how to read. They had kept up with the fact that the FAA had slashed pay over 30% and was treating their new hires like something you’d scrape off the bottom of your shoe.

They read reports from their fellow new hires about FAA officials going to Oklahoma City and telling the ATC trainees at the Academy (most of whom were making poverty-level wages and not getting per diem while living temporarily in a city hundreds or even thousands of miles away from home or their final permanent duty station) that they were lucky to have a job and if they didn’t like how things were going, they could just quit.

And guess what? Many of those 3,000+ college kids told the FAA to stuff it and didn’t even bother applying for the job.

The FAA then turned to hiring ex-military controllers, but there’s only so many of those, so the geniuses in charge started hiring people straight “off the street” to be controllers. Nothing wrong with OTS hires (I’m one!) but what this meant was that the college graduates who DID apply and get hired were now pissed off, because they’d spent tens of thousands of dollars on the FAA’s word that doing so was the only way they could be eligible for a controller job.

So now you’ve got an incoming workforce that’s being treated like crap who’re also angry from being lied to, and you’ve got a bunch of experienced guys who’re so disgusted that they’re retiring in droves.

And since the FAA wasn’t hiring a trainee until the journeyman controller actually left the job, and since it takes anywhere from 1 to 4 years to be fully trained, and since a significant portion of those trainees would go on to wind up washing out of training, we wound up with a staffing shortage.
We’re still critically short of controllers in some facilities, but as I said, traffic levels are down, down, down.

And that, folks, is the golden opportunity. If the fuel price shock and economy tanking hadn’t happened, we’d be utterly screwed right now from a lack of qualified controllers.

Instead, we’ve got a nice little chance to reverse the errors of the immediate past. We can keep hiring lots of new trainees and do a good job of getting them through the program. We know massive numbers of our workforce are eligible to retire in the next several years (6 years, 3 days for me, but who’s counting?) and it would make perfect sense to hire their replacements NOW, ahead of time, so we don’t fall behind like we did before.

Right? Right?

Naturally, that’s not what the FAA is doing. Instead, I’m hearing stories of the FAA contacting people just a week or three prior to their academy reporting date, telling them that they’re not going to be hired after all. (This after the folks have made all the necessary arrangements to quit their jobs, move out of their place, and trek off to the middle of the country for several months for initial training.)

At Seattle Center we’ve been told we saw our planned incoming student number for 2010 go from being 40, to 20, to 10, and now it’s down to just 2 people.

And this is happening nation-wide. The FAA, rather than being smart and getting ahead of the problem, is scaling back hiring dramatically.

We’re blowing an awesome chance, a golden opportunity, to finally fix the ATC staffing issue.
Damn! This article just made my toes curl.
I knew how jacked up the ATC were. I used to work with a former one, and he would tell me about guys just burning out, the monotony, and the profession in general not getting the respect it deserves.

Said one day he just wondered about jumping out the tower window - and that's when he knew it was time to go.



“Any man who tries to be good all the time is bound to come to ruin among the great number who are not good. Hence a Prince who wants to keep his authority must learn how not to be good, and use that knowledge, or refrain from using it, as necessity requires”.

- Nicolo Machiavelli 1469-1527

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