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Lieutenant defies Army over 'illegal' war
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Lieutenant defies Army over 'illegal' war - June 8, 2006, 06:52 AM

"I refuse to be silent any longer. I refuse to watch families torn apart, while the President tells us to 'stay the course.' ... I refuse to be party to an illegal and immoral war against people who did nothing to deserve our aggression. I wanted to be there for my fellow troops. But the best way was not to help drop artillery and cause more death and destruction. It is to help oppose this war and end it so that all soldiers can come home."



http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/ap...606060344/1001


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June 8, 2006, 07:18 AM

...except that he took an oath otherwise. Regardless of how he feels, he wears the uniform and is obligated to perform his duty. I feel for the guy, I really do- and I confront the horrors of this war far more than most people.


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June 8, 2006, 07:24 AM

I am not military so I dont know...when one takes the oath, what exactly are pledging to uphold?

Quote:
"It usurps international treaties and conventions that by virtue of the Constitution become American law. The wholesale slaughter and mistreatment of the Iraqi people with only limited accountability is not only a terrible moral injustice, but a contradiction to the Army's own Law of Land Warfare. My participation would make me party to war crimes."


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June 8, 2006, 07:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolomonRR
...except that he took an oath otherwise. Regardless of how he feels, he wears the uniform and is obligated to perform his duty. I feel for the guy, I really do- and I confront the horrors of this war far more than most people.
+1

Ship his ass out. He wants to whine and cry, do it in civilian clothes, not a military uniform. You get it or you don't, obviously, he doesn't get it.


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June 8, 2006, 07:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolomonRR
...except that he took an oath otherwise. Regardless of how he feels, he wears the uniform and is obligated to perform his duty. I feel for the guy, I really do- and I confront the horrors of this war far more than most people.
Big +1. The day you put your hand up and sign that contract, you are bound. You lose your Constitutional Rights and all. You do as you're told even when you don't agree.


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June 8, 2006, 07:32 AM

Is anyone going to answer my question?


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June 8, 2006, 07:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SolomonRR
...except that he took an oath otherwise. Regardless of how he feels, he wears the uniform and is obligated to perform his duty.
I agree 100% with Josh on this one. Regardless of who is making the decisions on an executive branch or if you agree with the policies. Why exactly did we swear in if he is going to try and exploit the system for an out? I'd say its a slap in the face to all those who are currently serving. And it's certainly no way to honor those who have fallen while performing there duty by this guy trying to punk out.

Your answer (hopefully):
http://www.answers.com/topic/united-...-of-allegiance
II, {insert name here}, do solemnly swear, (or affirm), that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God. (Note that the last line is not required to be said if the speaker has a personal or moral objection)
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June 8, 2006, 07:54 AM

I'l try BoomchicOO

It's been longer since I've been in than I like to admit, but this doesn't have to do with the oath of enlistment per se. It has to do with the Uniform Code Of Military Justice (UCMJ) which is pretty explicit about this. As a service member you are of course allowed to have your opinions (and we do, despite what many believe) and to discuss them (pick up a copy of Stars and Stripes: the op/ed page is surprisingly frank) but it is very poor form to make public statements as a servicemember. In severe cases, it could rise to the level of sedition. I'm not sure what the Lt said. I didn't RTFA.

"refusing to be part of an immoral war" could well constitute refusing direct orders, and is a whole other ball of wax. He could be in a lot of trouble on that one.

With a little luck I've been just inaccurate enough for someone more knowledgable to set me straight.

For my 0.02, as a veteran of the cold war, Gulf War 1 and some of the pizza runs of the early 90s (some of which I had issues with), I think he should keep his mouth shut in the press and do his job. Nobody is asking him to like it.
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June 8, 2006, 08:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by boomchic00
"I refuse to be silent any longer. I refuse to watch families torn apart, while the President tells us to 'stay the course.' ... I refuse to be party to an illegal and immoral war against people who did nothing to deserve our aggression. I wanted to be there for my fellow troops. But the best way was not to help drop artillery and cause more death and destruction. It is to help oppose this war and end it so that all soldiers can come home."



http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/ap...606060344/1001


http://www.thankyoult.org/index.php?...tpage&Itemid=1
You may support his basis for opposing the war but you applauding his decision to disobey direct orders is a slippery slope.

You may disagree with the war but the encouragement of soldiers to disagree direct orders that are in conflict with their personal belief system is stupid and dangerous.

Prior to the official involvement of the US in WWII, I assure you that the American serviceman was not altogether happy about fighting in Europe...especially when, unlike the Iraq citizenry, the Europeans possessed the ability to defend themselves.

If all military personell has to do is oppose a war based on its immorality, we are screwed and you better think about picking up a gun to defend our borders.

His actions were chickenshit and I hope he is punished accordingly in line with the UCMJ.

My religion calls on me to love thy neighbor and turn the other cheek, I guess all the Christians in this war have a basis for desertion as well.
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June 8, 2006, 08:23 AM



Please do not misread me and think I am hippie and sit around singing songs of love and peace.

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This war in Iraq is wrong. We were lied to by the very people this guy is opposing so good on him for having a backbone. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion and mine is it takes more courage to listen and act on your own then follow illegal orders clothed in medals and stars and stripes.


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June 8, 2006, 08:26 AM

THE OATH

I, _________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.



It's pretty straight forward really and NOT open for interpretation.
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June 8, 2006, 08:27 AM

Also related to his choice...

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/punit...es/a/mcm85.htm
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June 8, 2006, 08:31 AM

Tough one to be sure.

It is not just all about you take the oath and shut up... Sure by the book you are right, however as thinking human beings we have a moral constitution which allows us to perform in things called soceity. At some point your system objects and says 'this is wrong'.

If it is only about 'shutting up and following orders', I suggest you reflect back at some of the Nuremberg War Trials of WWII. Plenty of people on trial there that were "just following orders". Yes but they were animals and we would never do that one might say.

War is never a cut and dry business, there are no black hats and white hats only. Atrocities come with the package, they always have in each and every war and that includes this one.

Sure his comments would be better served once he gets out but I think its too easy to say the guy took an oath and therefore has no right to question anything. Understood that you cannot run a military group of any sort if everyone constantly questions everything, however I would hope that they do not stop questioning deep moral issues.
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June 8, 2006, 08:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaoTzu
THE OATH

I, _________, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.



It's pretty straight forward really and NOT open for interpretation.
Actually, it is quite open for discussion. I'd be the first person to say the number one threat to the Constitution is Rumsfeld, Bush, and Rice. I'd throw Cheney in there but I actually like the guy. And since that oath does in fact say "domestic"...

But the reality is, from my viewpoint Boomie, when the guy joined the military he agreed to do what he was told. And for whatever reason, he feels he no longer has to.

I hope he likes prison.
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June 8, 2006, 08:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by stevegula
Actually, it is quite open for discussion. I'd be the first person to say the number one threat to the Constitution is Rumsfeld, Bush, and Rice. I'd throw Cheney in there but I actually like the guy. And since that oath does in fact say "domestic"...

But the reality is, from my viewpoint Boomie, when the guy joined the military he agreed to do what he was told. And for whatever reason, he feels he no longer has to.

I hope he likes prison.
Well... the Uniform Code of Military Justice will cover just about ANY debate you have over the OATH... guranteed
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