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NRA - Attempting to ease ban on CC in Nat'l Parks
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NRA - Attempting to ease ban on CC in Nat'l Parks - July 24, 2008, 08:56 AM

The NRA is trying to get the National Park Service to ease up on carrying in National Parks for CCW permit holders, but the NPS is fighting back. They claim that Nat'l Parks are extremely low-crime areas and that law abiding citizens shouldn't be allowed to defend themselves while on federal property.

A gun rights activist claims it, "tramples our second amendment rights".....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25630796


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July 24, 2008, 09:13 AM

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July 24, 2008, 09:14 AM

Good, my NRA membership at work. I don't carry guns in remote areas as protection from people, I carry for protection from bears. The NPS must have blinders on if they don't think many people already do this. If you've gone through the background checks to obtain a weapon, as well as your CCW, then there is no good reason not to have them.


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July 24, 2008, 09:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nastybastard
I don't carry guns in remote areas as protection from people, I carry for protection from bears.
And that is one of the reasons they don't want you carrying in the National Parks. National Parks are Federal wildlife preservation areas, not conservation areas like the National Forest system or WMAs. In a National Park the wildlife and fauna get preference over human intruders.

I'm all for protecting oneself, and hunting as well for that matter. But I don't have a problem with the Park Service saying "If you wanna come visit don't be packing heat."
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July 24, 2008, 10:07 AM

I'm going to side with NPS on this one.
There isn't a history which warrants the need for ccw in national parks.
If your argument is a bear, find out how many bear attacks have happened in the US in the past 20 years. Now find out how many bear attacks where prevented cause they were shot by a CCW person. yea its not a good argument.

However there are more incidents (as stated in the article) of people being irresponsible with their CCW.

I'm all for the 2nd amendment, but somethings just aren't needed all the time.

If they provide a secure box in the Main office for you to lock and unload your weapon and retrieve when you leave, I find that pretty accommodating


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July 24, 2008, 10:19 AM

I'm not saying that the bear arguement is a good basis for this arguement, I am stating why I personally carry. I've probably had over 50 bear encounters in the past ten years while in remote areas. Have I been attacked, no, have I felt safer and been put in a position to defend myself if needed, definitely.

dub, your arguement about irresponsible CCW owners is a result of poor controls of the issuing state. Many don't have strict requirements or training that needs to be completed. I am in support of making it tougher to obtain the permits, but I do not support carrying restrictions. And the secure box is a good idea but there are very few NPS sites that have anything like this.

Again, many people are already carrying on NPS sites and you don't hear of too many incidents, do you?


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July 24, 2008, 10:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dubplaya
I'm going to side with NPS on this one.
There isn't a history which warrants the need for ccw in national parks.
If your argument is a bear, find out how many bear attacks have happened in the US in the past 20 years. Now find out how many bear attacks where prevented cause they were shot by a CCW person. yea its not a good argument.

However there are more incidents (as stated in the article) of people being irresponsible with their CCW.

I'm all for the 2nd amendment, but somethings just aren't needed all the time.

If they provide a secure box in the Main office for you to lock and unload your weapon and retrieve when you leave, I find that pretty accommodating
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080724/...us/bear_attack

Anyways, anything can happen anywhere at anytime. I think it is bullshit to say that you cannot carry a personal firearm across an imaginary line just becaue the Federal Govt. has deemed the property as protected. Just because you are carrying a firearm does not mean you are going to enter a National Park like it is the wild west and start shooting endangered birds or other animals. Most folks who have taken the time to obtain their CCW permit are law abiding citizens and would only use their weapon when in dire need. With that said, what difference would it make if someone carried a weapon into a national park and never once used it then if they didnt carry a weapon at all? My thought is it is better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. I dont see what effect a law abiding citizen, who carries everywhere else everyday, would have in a National Park. I guess my question to opponents of this action would be...why not?
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July 24, 2008, 11:03 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG40cal
I guess my question to opponents of this action would be...why not?
Because all guns are bad, and people that carry guns are bad...mkay!


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July 24, 2008, 12:59 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by nastybastard
Because all guns are bad, and people that carry guns are bad...mkay!
Ohhhh, I'm bad!


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July 24, 2008, 01:04 PM

The right to keep and arm bears.


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July 24, 2008, 01:18 PM

My dad is an avid fly fisherman. One of his Vietnam buddies lives the backwoods of Alaska with his family. These people are completely off the grid. No electricity or plumbing, they take a small plane to the grocery store like once every three months since it is so far away. Anyways, my dads buddy phil is a hunting and fishing guide up there. For their anniversary, my mom sent my dad to visit him for like two weeks of salmon fishing. This wasnt National Preserve type fishing. It was in the middle of nowhere, sharing the stream with wild grizzly fishing. Well before he went, my dad had to get a sidearm for the bears. You couldnt take a high cal rifle because if you are in the middle of a stream, with your gun on the banks, and a bear charges your are good as dead. He bought a Smith and Wesson Trail Boss to keep on his hip. It is a 44 magnum and they have these crazy ass bear loads that you can buy up there in Alaska. These arent the kinds of rounds you shoot for fun. Especially out of a 3" revolver. My dad said there was a joke u there that while you may have 6 shots only 5 of them really count. If you havent dropped a charging bear in those 5 shots, the 6th is for yourself.
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July 24, 2008, 01:45 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG40cal
I guess my question to opponents of this action would be...why not?
sure and what about Disney too? I suppose cc'ers need to protect their family there too...

It is not the 'most people' who you describe that are the issue.
It is the ones that carry and cannot maintain a level head in certain situations.
Perfectly rational people have been known to do irrational things at times (and it is not just your local mail carrier...).
I'd prefer they would not be able to draw on me fishing a creek, having a picnic, hiking a trail or waiting for the damn tea-cup ride....

and yes, I have had a shiny 9 mm pointed at me just for driving a Japanese sports car...not a good feeling and not one I care to repeat.
(of course that was in another country....Texas )
And no, I would not have felt better if I would have had my own piece in that situation,
it would probably have escalated the situation and forced at least one person to fire...

either way, to me the whole 2nd amendment foreign tyrant thing is a bit of a stretch to a nice day in the Grand Canyon...


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July 24, 2008, 01:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch
sure and what about Disney too? I suppose cc'ers need to protect their family there too...

It is not the 'most people' who you describe that are the issue.
It is the ones that carry and cannot maintain a level head in certain situations.
Perfectly rational people have been known to do irrational things at times (and it is not just your local mail carrier...).
I'd prefer they would not be able to draw on me fishing a creek, having a picnic, hiking a trail or waiting for the damn tea-cup ride....

and yes, I have had a shiny 9 mm pointed at me just for driving a Japanese sports car...not a good feeling and not one I care to repeat.
(of course that was in another country....Texas )
And no, I would not have felt better if I would have had my own piece in that situation,
it would probably have escalated the situation and forced at least one person to fire...

either way, to me the whole 2nd amendment foreign tyrant thing is a bit of a stretch to a nice day in the Grand Canyon...
Dont you think those that carry and cannot maintain a level head would be carrying anyways? Permit or not? I mean if the bad guys are already carrying then why not try to level the playing field? Again, better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Besides, if someone is going to go crazy in a public park, they probably dont give a shit about permits anyways. Those who respect the law will most likely carry and you will never even know it. Like I said, it can happen anytime anywhere. Over the years I have seen more crime than I ever care to see again. Just to name a few...In college my house was "invaded" by three masked gunmen. My roommates were tied up, pistol whipped and robbed. Luckily I wasnt home. Also in college, A friend of mine chased a man who had just robbed their house and was shot twice. He walked two blocks to my house where he died on the corner. Another friend of mine in Gainesville was shot 9 times as he sat in his car...in his driveway. Most recently, a suicidal man was walking around my condo complex with a gun. The cops showed up, he pointed the gun at them, and they killed him. Sharon and I saw the aftermath while walking our dog several hours later. Had we come home any earlier we could have rounded the corner and been face to face with a desperate man and his gun. So yeah, I am going to carry my gun and I am going to protect whats mine.

And to answer you question...Yes, even Disney. People talk like nothing bad can ever happen to them. Tell that to the kids that lost their lives while in class at tech. Tell that to the victims of all the recent Mall Shootings. Tell that to any of the innocent bystanders caught in the middle of a criminals rampage. It can happen ANYWHERE. I dont know why people have such a negative view of law-abiding citizens arming themselves. Just because you are carrying a gun does not make you more prone to violence and like Ive said many times, that are prone to that level of violence will carry weapons regardless of any laws, regulations, and/or restrictions.

Last edited by JTG40cal; July 24, 2008 at 02:02 PM..
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July 24, 2008, 02:06 PM

I think the operative part of all the arguments here is that it's good to be armed in case of the random wild animals or guerillas, but coudln't you be just as happy with open carry at that point?

I'm normally in favor of responsible concealed carry, but when you start going onto federal grounds with it, it starts a slippery slope into other govt areas, buildings, courts, monuments, etc. Besides, the administrative aspect of regulating firearms in federal areas with respect to surroundign state laws, etc. becomes a logistical nightmare.


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July 24, 2008, 02:12 PM

Justin,

I think we are talking about two different angles I didn't think when you said "most people" in your first post that the ones not included would be bad guys.

yes I agree the 'bad guys' will carry no matter what. I'm not referring to that. I was referring to average people who are "most people" most of the time but lose their temper. Hot days, major back-ups, long lines, a wrong push, a wrong look...many things can piss 'average' people off. I'd just rather they not have a piece under their coat with them when they do overreact... especially at a place like Disney or the Grand Canyon. Perhaps thats a parent's view, perhaps its just me...


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