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Sayonara: Last F-22 Rolls Off the Line - Only 187 Built
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Sayonara: Last F-22 Rolls Off the Line - Only 187 Built - December 13, 2011, 05:51 PM

Drones can do it for longer and cheaper. Increasing less need for human intervention. Skynet is pleased.

Someone with more mil contracting experience answer me this...
Lockheed embarked on this project with the knowledge that the US would be their sole customer.

Congress instituted a law that forbids any US supplier from selling next gen technology and stealth systems in whole or part to anyone besides the US, regardless if the customer is friendly status with the US.

Considering the US agreed to X > 187 units and LM put billions into development into this model and the manufacturing to meet expected demand, and probably have not fully recouped investment - at least on sales alone they will with parts, upgrades, and servicing - can't LM produce a slightly neutered version of this for sale overseas?

Or will the government <cough> compensate them someway with additional contracts.

Just curious as to how this game works when law mandates that you have a single source customer.




Last F-22 Raptor Rolls Off Assembly Line - Fox News Video - Fox News



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December 13, 2011, 06:58 PM

PIECE OF SHIT.




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December 13, 2011, 07:06 PM

Not necessarily a POS. Just expensive. $153MM a copy.



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December 13, 2011, 07:09 PM

Nothing of value was lost.


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December 13, 2011, 07:12 PM

"Soooooo, America. Any plans to fly one of those over Iranian airspace in the near future?"



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December 14, 2011, 07:15 AM

I thought there were similar models that cost substantially less that were sold to other countries?

*edit* F-35 JSF



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December 14, 2011, 08:11 AM

Yes, F-35 is nowhere near what the F-22 is terms of capabilities and packages. The F-22 was an air dominance fighter. The F-35 was designed to be not as good and sold to multiple countries.



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December 14, 2011, 08:13 AM

Quote:
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Yes, F-35 is nowhere near what the F-22 is terms of capabilities and packages. The F-22 was an air dominance fighter. The F-35 was designed to be not as good and sold to multiple countries.
Exactly, based off a similar design but lacking in the overall features. This is likely the route that the government offered LM to take in order to make some money.


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December 14, 2011, 08:28 AM

Quote:
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Exactly, based off a similar design but lacking in the overall features. This is likely the route that the government offered LM to take in order to make some money.
sooo what you're saying is...
the F-35 is a lot like the new GSXR1000.

I see what your saying.


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December 14, 2011, 08:41 AM

I can't speak to your statement but I can say that Lockheed has a ton of other projects with the government that stopping production of the F-22 won't hurt the company overall as much. The local area benefiting from jobs relating to building the F-22 might suffer though.

The real question became cost vs. return on investment as to why it was canceled. With our current inventory of fighting aircraft (and we have many, I will give you a second to count them all) and with the current threats that the United Stated is most likely to face, it didn't make sense to continue to build an aircraft that would win a battle with the Soviet Union. And the fact that it can't be deployed from an aircraft carrier greatly limits is striking distance. The next conflict we are most likely to engage in is a urban type of theater where stealth fighter jets won't be very practical.


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December 14, 2011, 08:43 AM

Quote:
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. The F-22 was an air dominance fighter.
So is the Navy's F/A18 Hornet/Super Hornet and is a lot more versatile.


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December 14, 2011, 09:11 AM

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I can't speak to your statement but I can say that Lockheed has a ton of other projects with the government that stopping production of the F-22 won't hurt the company overall as much. The local area benefiting from jobs relating to building the F-22 might suffer though.

The real question became cost vs. return on investment as to why it was canceled. With our current inventory of fighting aircraft (and we have many, I will give you a second to count them all) and with the current threats that the United Stated is most likely to face, it didn't make sense to continue to build an aircraft that would win a battle with the Soviet Union. And the fact that it can't be deployed from an aircraft carrier greatly limits is striking distance. The next conflict we are most likely to engage in is a urban type of theater where stealth fighter jets won't be very practical.
Valid point. The lack of carrier launch and recovery is a big negative mark. Some of this is solved with air-to-air refueling and foreign air bases, but nothing is a greater deterrent than parking a Carrier Air Wing 30 miles off your coast.

However, our current inventory of fighters are all nearly 40 years old(!) in terms of design. F15, F16, F18, A6, A10, AV-8B, B1 - all designed in the late-60s & 70s.

There have been a number of block upgrades along the way to improve aspects and capabilities, but at its core we still have a very aged fleet and a fresh sheet of paper was surely needed. One F-22 could easily replace 4-5 of the aforementioned planes. Think about the cost savings with only needing to train, support, and run one platform.

I don't know. The F-35 to me is a frigging joke. It's a purposely compromised weapon. The Navy compromised on this (twin engines) - the Airforce compromised on that (payload capacity) - the Marines compromised the other (Stealthiness for VTOL).
Who the hell wants a compromised tool that's weaker than what is already available.

Worse, the aircraft is what, 4-5 years late already? It finally did its first Amp Assault ship test landing just a few months ago.



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December 14, 2011, 09:23 AM

the F35 cost about as much as the F22 now btw.

are you asking if LM is going to sell a "non s" version to china or the such? what do you think? Heist you know everything, seems odd when you ask questions...

also if you get a chance go down to Langley and watch one of the demo flights of the F22 (unless they are grounded) and ask yourself: why wouldn't we want this thing?!


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December 14, 2011, 09:40 AM

Good points as well. I think that a lot of the reluctance from Congress when it comes to new equipment stems from 100% of the defense projects run, no less than at least, 200-250% over-budget conservativly estimating. The F-22's looked like a steal when first proposed but after time delays and cost overruns, it became less appealing. I'm for us having the newest and best equipment but there has to be some accountability during the procurement process. To quote my grandfather "Money aint free" but the folks in the DoD sometimes thinks it is.

I like the idea of a stealth fighter but I'm just not sure if one is needed. For instance, the Navy's EA-6B Prowler has the capability to "jam" enemy radar and is often deployed well before the Super Hornets to "hide" their advancement. So in this scenario, the stealth capabilities for an F-22 is not an added value. I know there are probably other times where individual stealth is needed but what is the ratio of those missions?

I guess I'm for spending the money more on where it is needed. If the 4 block war is the next conflict, according to the USMC, then there is where we should point our resources. In that instance, rotary wing aircraft would be more valuable but heck, we have a ton of helo's in inventory too.


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December 14, 2011, 09:40 AM

Quote:
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the F35 cost about as much as the F22 now btw.

are you asking if LM is going to sell a "non s" version to china or the such? what do you think? Heist you know everything, seems odd when you ask questions...

also if you get a chance go down to Langley and watch one of the demo flights of the F22 (unless they are grounded) and ask yourself: why wouldn't we want this thing?!

Not to China. Of course not to them or any nation where we don't have a close relationship.
But I'm sure Israel would love about 20, so long as they don't start WW3 by launching strikes against Iran. Canada would happily pick up 40.
Japan, put them down for 10 since their SDF is still running F-15s and are growing more concerned about China & North Korea ramping up their militaries.



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