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  (#76)
Jeez If You Love Honkus
 
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October 16, 2012, 01:45 PM

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Originally Posted by Scratch View Post
Now let me ask: who would you substitute as the authority and decisionmakers, if not the parents and the doctors?

Unless you have evidence that Pete Singer is present in the room during these discussions, I think we can rule him out.
And since you've revived our exchange, I'll revive this question to you.
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  (#77)
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October 16, 2012, 02:14 PM

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And since you've revived our exchange, I'll revive this question to you.
Already in the hands of parents, with the aid of their physicians, before, during, and right after birth. Right? Well, sort of. Our civil laws govern healthcare, as I think they ought to. A child is and ought to be protected. Just because a set of parents give birth to a child does not mean they have authority over whether that child lives or not.

I have friends who just recently delivered premature twins of a problematic pregnancy. One was ~2 lbs, while the other was ~1.5 lbs. They faced a tough decision about whether to have one or both, at the risk of having neither. They chose both, and both are still alive. The point at which each child may breath on its own marks the point at which these parents can no longer make a decision to "pull the plug" on them. No parent in our society has a legal right to starve, drown, or otherwise destroy the life of a living, breathing baby. Singer would have it differently, as I gather from his writings.

Singer has argued for up to a year-long window for deciding to off a child. The problems here, just off the top of my head, are (1) not everyone agrees when life ought to be sanctified, if at all, and (2) we don't have a clear set of criteria for determining at what functional level does a human child deserve human rights. I know there has been effort on his part as well as by others to emphasize euthanasia in only cases of extreme suffering and hardship, but I do think that it opens floodgates of interpretation. Maybe not tomorrow, but in the future. Sure, it's a slippery slope argument, but we do see in history how progressive desensitization and "pushing the envelop" lead to worse things detached from the original intentions. I add a third for myself, and it is this. Singer places emphasis on the perceived well-being of the parents at the expense of the "disabled" child. I don't like this notion that one with a healthy, normal life is somehow absolved of any responsibility for the powerless.


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  (#78)
Jeez If You Love Honkus
 
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October 16, 2012, 02:20 PM

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Originally Posted by OrangeShirtDude View Post
Already in the hands of parents, with the aid of their physicians, before, during, and right after birth. Right? Well, sort of. Our civil laws govern healthcare, as I think they ought to. A child is and ought to be protected. Just because a set of parents give birth to a child does not mean they have authority over whether that child lives or not.

I have friends who just recently delivered premature twins of a problematic pregnancy. One was ~2 lbs, while the other was ~1.5 lbs. They faced a tough decision about whether to have one or both, at the risk of having neither. They chose both, and both are still alive. The point at which each child may breath on its own marks the point at which these parents can no longer make a decision to "pull the plug" on them. No parent in our society has a legal right to starve, drown, or otherwise destroy the life of a living, breathing baby. Singer would have it differently, as I gather from his writings.

Singer has argued for up to a year-long window for deciding to off a child. The problems here, just off the top of my head, are (1) not everyone agrees when life ought to be sanctified, if at all, and (2) we don't have a clear set of criteria for determining at what functional level does a human child deserve human rights. I know there has been effort on his part as well as by others to emphasize euthanasia in only cases of extreme suffering and hardship, but I do think that it opens floodgates of interpretation. Maybe not tomorrow, but in the future. Sure, it's a slippery slope argument, but we do see in history how progressive desensitization and "pushing the envelop" lead to worse things detached from the original intentions. I add a third for myself, and it is this. Singer places emphasis on the perceived well-being of the parents at the expense of the "disabled" child. I don't like this notion that one with a healthy, normal life is somehow absolved of any responsibility for the powerless.
If there's an answer to my question anywhere in there, I must've missed it.
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  (#79)
Jeez If You Love Honkus
 
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October 16, 2012, 02:31 PM

Oh, and here's a refresher as to the context of my question. I get the impression from your last response that you wanted to veer off from it a bit.

From the article you chose to offer here:

Quote:
It is this third group that creates the controversy because their lives cannot be ended simply by withdrawing intensive care. Instead, at the University Medical Center Groningen, if suffering cannot be relieved and no improvement can be expected, the physicians will discuss with the parents whether this is a case in which death "would be more humane than continued life." If the parents agree that this is the case, and the team of physicians also agrees -- as well as an independent physician not otherwise associated with the patient -- the infant's life may be ended.
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  (#80)
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October 16, 2012, 02:35 PM

Society, by way of law, is arguably the greatest authority, in the vast majority of cases. Parents cannot just decide to put an end to the life of a child. I'm satisfied with how things are right now so there is your answer, in fewer words.

What I will mention only and avoid getting into in detail is that there are layers of conformity with law, be it civil, criminal, or moral. There may be a case every now and then that challenges the constraints of the law. In such a case, I don't think the law should change, yet we can have some "give" in its, shall we say, enforcement. You're a smart guy--I'm sure you can read between these lines.


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  (#81)
Jeez If You Love Honkus
 
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October 16, 2012, 02:39 PM

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You're a smart guy--I'm sure you can read between these lines.
Umm. Sure.

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  (#82)
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October 16, 2012, 04:33 PM

wow. Tripod.


*Not intended to be a factual statement.
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  (#83)
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October 16, 2012, 04:38 PM

Droppin Tripod bombs... LTFO!


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