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The Self-Defense Decision
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otb
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The Self-Defense Decision - January 16, 2013, 11:50 AM

Most folks THINK they know what they'll do when the balloon goes up. How people react and what actually happens seldom is what folks envision it will look like.

A steady diet of Hollywood fantasy shoot-outs where the hero (me, in Walter Mittyish fashion) confronts the bad guy with some snappy repartee before blowing him out of his shoes, and then goes on about his (or her) jolly life is, well, not so much.

My experiences with potentially life-threatening scenarios is pretty much the same that one faces during a motorcycle "emergency"....adrenaline dump, loss of fine motor skills, tunnel vision, auditory exclusion, focus on the object or person causing the "high alert" and afterword, an inability to focus, shaking, poor communication or motormouth babbling, exhaustion and tiredness.

Assuming you prevail and live to see another day, some things you may not have anticipated are likely going to happen to you that are not very pleasant.

Forget about driving downtown to give a statement like on Law and Order. Depending on where you live, the size of the town you live in, the friendliness or lack thereof of the locals political machine to those that choose to exercise there 2nd amendment rights.......

...most likely, you are going to be cuffed and put into the back of a cruiser, at the very least. Most cops are just as jacked up on adrenaline as you are when they roll up to a "shots fired" call.

Remember that.

Remember also, that anything you say, can and will be used against you in a court of law.

If you don't remember anything else, remember that.

Unless the first cops on the scene are your brother-in-law and your next door neighbor, if you are a law-abiding type, chances are these officers don't know you, don't know who the players are. They do know that somebody at the scene has at least one gun and has used it.

You are going to be looking at some nervous cop's drawn pistol or shotgun.

Remember that.

Depending of the situation, you may be interviewed multiple times, cuffed in the back of the cruiser on in a holding cell at the local precinct by multiple officers, uniformed or not. I'm not a lawyer, but I was told to say just the minimum, such as "I'm the homeowner, the person broke in, I was in fear of my life."

That's about it.....anything else should be said in the presence of and with the approval of your attorney.

That goes for any "cellmate talk". A number of folks are in prison right now who shouldn't be because they were pumped up on adrenaline with motormouth and the euphoria that comes with having survived, and then said something like "I blew that so-and so away, he had it coming".

Many an ambitious DA has made his "Gun Control" bones on some poor innocent shlub who couldn't shut up, and took words said under duress and twisted them around for a jury to see them as meaning something else. Don't be that guy.

You may or may not be charged with various crime(s), even if you acted in a judicious manner; some DA's figure to let the jury sort out the facts.

It's going to cost a bundle to defend yourself; like in second mortgage or sell the house type bundle.

You may or may not have to go to trial to stay out of jail, but you are most likely going to be sued by the perp or the perp's family in civil court for various damages.

You are going to have a tough financial time for a long time, even if you prevail.


Those are the facts. They suck, but they are still the facts.






Still, it beats the shit out of being the victim.


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January 16, 2013, 11:56 AM

Thanks OTB.

No talk until a lawyer is present is critical.

In regards to the cost however, is there an ability to counter-sue? IE guy tries to rob you. He gets killed during the B&E. Perps family sues for his death. Its ruled self defense. Can you sue family of perp for costs?
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January 16, 2013, 11:57 AM

Yep. Good advice is:

Officer, Detective, etc: I was in fear for my life. I will be happy to answer your questions and cooperate fully, the very instant i've consulted an attorney.


Also, have it put away before the cops get there.




As for the response... we never know how we'll react to life threatening danger until it happens. And, almost everyone's first time is awful. Train, train, train, and train some more. When you can, go to ranges that allow you to shoot from a draw, shoot from behind cover, etc.


-Fitz

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January 16, 2013, 11:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluhokie12 View Post
Thanks OTB.

No talk until a lawyer is present is critical.

In regards to the cost however, is there an ability to counter-sue? IE guy tries to rob you. He gets killed during the B&E. Perps family sues for his death. Its ruled self defense. Can you sue family of perp for costs?
Depends on the state. I believe in Cali, you couldn't countersue.

Hell, I was sued in cali because a pressure dressing i put on someone, that SAVED THEIR LIFE according to the docs, caused nerve damage to the arm


-Fitz

2016 Harley Softail Slim S
2012 Harley Ultra Limited in Ultra Annoying Orange Sold!
2012 V-Strom 1000 Sold!
2009 Buell 1125R Sold!
2005 Superhawk Sold!
2001 Superhawk Abandoned!
1981 CB650C Destroyed!

Brace Yourselves... the cries of "It's too cold to ride" are coming...
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January 16, 2013, 11:58 AM

You can sue anybody....collecting is the problem.

Remember....he's a perp, likely from a long line of perps......


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January 16, 2013, 01:36 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by otb View Post
You can sue anybody....collecting is the problem.

Remember....he's a perp, likely from a long line of perps......
Bingo


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otb
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January 16, 2013, 01:47 PM

The other issue is "Juries are funny". Not ha, ha funny; funny, like they do strange and unpredictable things.

You can be cleared by a jury of your peers or by a grand jury for criminal charges, and then turn around and have a civil jury find you liable. Oftimes, it is because uninformed members felt you should have "shot to wound" or run away.... . or not had such nice stuff that Poor Little Misunderstood Perp was tempted to steal, or worn purple underwear.....

Civil juries are usually smaller and they don't have to be unanimous to find against you.




I'm not saying don't defend yourself; I'm just telling you what you have to look forward to should you find yourself "in the gravest extreme".

Which is why you don't go looking for trouble; it's bad enough when it comes looking for you.


Like I said, it sucks, but it beats taking a dirt nap.


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January 16, 2013, 02:17 PM

Also, very important, be sure to kill them.

You are better off with one story... yours.

You don't want some lawyer wheeling this piece of shit into a court room eating through a straw, and pulling to sympathy card.


Everytime you cook up...a little boy gets crushed by a bridge. -JTG40cal



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January 16, 2013, 02:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildjester View Post
Also, very important, be sure to kill them.

You are better off with one story... yours.

You don't want some lawyer wheeling this piece of shit into a court room eating through a straw, and pulling to sympathy card.

if you choose this route, be careful how you go about implementing it.


In other words, don't use a small caliber that you will have to shoot the person 10 times with in order to kill them. And go to the range. Practice efficiency.
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January 16, 2013, 02:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by drz1050 View Post
if you choose this route, be careful how you go about implementing it.


In other words, don't use a small caliber that you will have to shoot the person 10 times with in order to kill them. And go to the range. Practice efficiency.
Oh yeah, that's a given.
Don't drag their barely alive body into tub, reload, and shoot them in the face 6 times.

Defend your self with a suitable caliber.
Center of mass and don't stop until the perp does.


Everytime you cook up...a little boy gets crushed by a bridge. -JTG40cal



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January 16, 2013, 03:01 PM

Don't stop until your 30 round magazine is empty, they hit the floor, or their back is facing you.


horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you
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