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CrazyMotorcycleGuy
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Stepped driving permits/licenses
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B
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Stepped driving permits/licenses - April 6, 2011, 10:12 AM

A friendly, and hopefully educational, debate on driving. Keep it clean, this site is still suffering a prolonged winter angst but be curteous. This is based off of MagicRats finding that police track, and Dodges rant about old people, but speaks to the larger issues anyone on a bike has dealt with... poor driving habits, particularly in this area.

DC drivers:
DC suffers from a unique driving problem. Because of the amount of transplants that arrive here and stay for the average three year cycle, the DC area accumulates many regional driving styles that don't mesh well. People from the long, straight, sunny roads of Florida react differently than the folks from the cooler twisties of the Rocky Mountains. Mix in the other-nationals and you really have a mixing pot.

I've advocated a stepped driving program as a way to deal with two distinct issues I've identified with the area, and driving; firstly the generally poor driving habits of the area, secondly the suspect judicial system and aggressive police presence that further agitates the generally poor driving habits of the area.

Not to say that our roads shouldn't be a safe place to travel, or that reduced speed enforcement doesn't curtail a loss of life... but that there simply might be a better way to skin the cat. Sometimes I personally feel the judicial traffic system is a moneymill, with out-of-porportion penalties.

Stepped Drivers Permit Program - Three levels of licensing:
1.Standard - Current qualifications
2.Advanced - Undergo instructor led training (trackdays)
3.Expert - Undergo courses that have been tailored for police, secret service, etc.

Particulars.
Self funded - like your original permit to receive a license, investing in yourself as a driver and raising your legitimacy in the courts.

Better legitimacy in court - A police officer can cite you for reckless driving for nearly anything he or she wants too. You are generally illegitimate without counsel in court, and the burden of proof is actually on you as the police officer is regarded as an expert witness... this can even mean eyeballing your speed while heading in the opposite direction.

Better mean driving levels - I think, especially for younger folks, this would represent a great way to equip enthusiastic drivers positively, and raise the general level of driver ability.

This is not a judicial system rant, nor a cop rant.


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Last edited by B; April 6, 2011 at 10:14 AM..
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April 6, 2011, 10:20 AM

Agreed on the system but when you start venturing into realism it's just not gonna happen. Only reason is because of our political structure. Every state has the right to establish their own rules/laws and have their own Division of Motor Vehicles and associated departments. The only way this would work would be in a nationwide move. Unfortunately, our state based system does not allow for something like this. If we were to go to Washington with a massive bill suggesting a change like this, Washington would just ask us why we are there since that is a policy controlled by the states independently.

Even though the systems have been linked finally so that each state has full access to the records of other states, they are still very different. What constitutes one violation here with a certain point system will not correlate to the same violation and same point system in the home/base state that the person is licensed in.

Interestingly though, you just described one of my ideas in my imaginary large island that I own and plan to establish a society that will challenge all the norms of the world and prove that there are better ways of doing things.

Side Note: If you guys think drivers are bad here you should try moving to Miami. I think drivers here are AWESOME! (relatively speaking)

Last edited by nootherids; April 6, 2011 at 10:22 AM..
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April 6, 2011, 10:27 AM

This would apply at a state level, but reciprocity extends between many states. The Fed was distinctly build for this; to coordinate state level functions or requirements accross the board.

Our answer to faster cars, and higher deathrates has been costly police enforcement, resulting in a tangible change in the attitudes of the public toward officers and vice versa, and little in the way of results. A poor byproduct has been increased state and municipality income generated from ticketing (this is a seperate argument, but it's been well documented that some police forces recieve gains from ticketing).


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April 6, 2011, 10:27 AM

i thought you were dragging the euro system out again to beat on it some more.

it just wont happen. you'd have to retest all the time too... for all skill levels.


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April 6, 2011, 10:31 AM

I had someone going way below the speed limit today blocking traffic behind them and everyone going around and she didn't care one bit.
A young girl putting makeup on yesterday on 70.
People riding in the far left when people in the far right are going faster and even if all 3 lanes are open they feel the need to just sit over there.
People not understanding that yes in Maryland you can pass on the right.
If you see someone coming up on you from a mile away closing fast, don't wait till they get on your bumper to then decide to move over.
Don't stare just straight ahead like its a freaking tv screen watching life go by. Pan constantly in all your mirrors and know what's around you.

My take on the driving issue! People don't give a shit about anyone else.
They feel that because they are doing the speed limit they don't need to move or be courteous in any fashion.
Driving is suppose to be a privilege but we continue to let epileptics and elderly drive because we don't want to take away their privilege yet they are out killing people.

I think everyone should be required to continue to take driving education and in some form education similar to what trained security personnel would go through.
Rant over


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April 6, 2011, 10:36 AM

fairfax county offers a youth driving program where instructors teach kids better driving on their track at dullus. skid pad, evasive maneuvers, cone slalom.. etc


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April 6, 2011, 11:04 AM

^^^ WUT??? And why not offer the same thing for adults and give them a county certificate of license endorsement?! Or at the least just offer it for free so that people will learn how to drive. Kids do it just for fun, they don't actually "learn" anything from it.
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April 6, 2011, 11:07 AM

call em up and ask them to put a course on...


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April 6, 2011, 11:14 AM

Funny...I lived in Atlanta for 4 years and I thought everybody drove like the Dukes of Hazzard down there...lol.

Never really thought about DC's driving "style" as beign a hybrid of various areas but it makes sense.

I am ALL for a "tiered" system, especially when it comes to motorcycles. In fact, that is kind of how my parents allowed me to drive growing up. First, it was only to and from school, no other passangers (lol...do you know how hard it was turing down people rides as a 16 yr old?), and not during night hours...eventually as my skill improved to their satisfaction those restrictions were scaled back.

Not sure how I feel on the exact tier levels set in the OP yet however...or more so the what certs you have to have to get to the next level...


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April 6, 2011, 11:24 AM

Anyone can pass a test if they strive to pass the test. That doesn't mean people wont ride/drive like idiots.
How many people you know who do track schools and still do stupid shit on the road.
I find those that are skilled may even take greater risks.


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April 6, 2011, 11:29 AM

Remove all safety features from cars.


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April 6, 2011, 11:32 AM

Our problems aren't skill... Our problem is the attitude of people...
How often do you walk down the side walk in a busy city and see how people just don't have any respect for anyone else...
How often do people even walk on the wrong side of the stairs.
I saw someone a few weeks ago make a left where there was clearly a no left turn sign right onto a street with 2 huge do not enter signs.
Guess what, yep (he/she) didnt see them (sarcasm) and was going onto the highway the wrong direction. Jesus H Christ, that's not skill that is just being a total fucktard that thinks signs don't apply to them and thought it just didn't want you to turn at that light.


To punish and enslave!
2003 GSXR1K
2008 HD Night Train
religion is just a misspelling of superstition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi
Once again I forgive you for your self-righteousness, bigotry and prejudice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillie View Post
I'll also thank them for proving that you don't need the force to get a woman to make you a sammich.
"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security."
-Benjamin Franklin
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYpOF...embedded#at=36
http://www.bachbio.com/gunsavelives.htm

Last edited by n2sport; April 6, 2011 at 11:34 AM..
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April 6, 2011, 11:43 AM

Not sure I understand what it is you are proposing. What would be the difference/benefit be between the levels of licence?

I'm all for a more rigorous driving skills requirement to get a license. However the biggest cause of accidents I've seen are folks simply not paying attention or intentionally being an asshat. Drivers have no incentive to shut up and DRIVE. It's more a societal issue than a skills issue.

A class to increase their skills will have about as much affect on their inattentive habits as a driver improvement class has on my habit of taking speed limit signs as suggestions.

Edit: I see lots of folks are thinking the same thing. I type SLOWWWW. LOL

Yeah, we don't need mandatory airbags, ABS, seatbelt laws, or cell phone bans, what we need is people given an incentive to pay attention.

Last edited by windblown; April 6, 2011 at 11:46 AM..
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April 6, 2011, 12:00 PM

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April 6, 2011, 12:09 PM

Yea when you figure out a way to incentivise away all the accidents and traffic generated by inattentiveness, start a thread for it.

This is a thread about incentivising away accidents and traffic generated by people who I don't think possess the basic competency to drive well. I feel that incompetency is a greater threat than inattentiveness, and increased mean competency could even compensate for the later in many cases (personally I know I've avoided at least two accidents that were because of my inattention, because of my competency).


SV650s for SALE!!!
- 2007 SV650 Racebike-Superbike KWS/Thermosman suspension/Swenz bodywork/All GSXR Parts
- 2009 SV650 Streetbike Race blue with white stripe/No wrecks/fully faired with M4 full system

Shoot me a PM or talk to Nate (Nudist) if you're interested in purchase.

Last edited by B; April 6, 2011 at 12:11 PM..
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