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Vote or Not to Vote?
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  (#1)
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Post Vote or Not to Vote? - November 2, 2010, 11:22 AM

For those of you of that truely understand the voting process. Does your vote really count? I mean with voting scandals and unreliable voting machines/systems.
Do you think your vote really counts?
Post up with your opinions.

It's generally said that if you dont vote, you shouldnt complain. Well, do your votes really count, when it does count?


"If brains were gas. You wouldnt have enough gas, to drive a piss-ants' motorcycle, half-way around a BB."
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  (#2)
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November 2, 2010, 11:37 AM

Votes count statistically, though most races are predetermined. Yes, if you don't vote then keep your mouth shut until you learn to vote. Not that voting really changes much either way.


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  (#3)
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November 2, 2010, 11:51 AM

Too many people fought, sacrificed, and ultimately died for my right to vote. To not do so would be dishonoring them and their sacrifice.



“Any man who tries to be good all the time is bound to come to ruin among the great number who are not good. Hence a Prince who wants to keep his authority must learn how not to be good, and use that knowledge, or refrain from using it, as necessity requires”.

- Nicolo Machiavelli 1469-1527

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November 2, 2010, 11:55 AM

not sure about non-presidental elections but usually when YOU vote you are giving your vote to the EC (electoral college) who then PLACES a vote BASED ON what votes they received....so there is kinda two votes...the popular vote...a tally of ALL votes placed for one candidate versus the other AND the EC vote.

It's possible to win the popular vote and lose the EC vote...which that candidtate would lose the election...wait maybe I said that backwards...it's possible to lose the popular vote and win the EC vote and win the election...yeah I think that is right...

so basically no matter HOW many people voted for you....you can still lose if you don't get enough votes to win the EC.

I think this is what causes people to FEEL their vote is uncounted b/c they are just voting for another system to cast a vote for them on their behalf and don't realize that in order for that to happen....they STILL have to cast a vote. It should be an HONOR to vote considering everyone DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT to vote...i.e. it was taken away from them.

That being said....I've voted in EVERY presidential election since 18 (bday is dec..so missed on my 18th if election year) BUT I don't always vote in the state...which is bad b/c places like DC don't really have a vote or say in congress.


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  (#5)
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November 2, 2010, 12:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heist View Post
Too many people fought, sacrificed, and ultimately died for my right to vote. To not do so would be dishonoring them and their sacrifice.
I'm a white man (of Italian origin non the less), this does not apply to me

Will your single vote count when thousands are also doing so? No. Does the mentality and virus spreading pessimism that my vote would not matter count? You tell me.

It's your civil duty and right to vote, do it! do it!


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  (#6)
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November 2, 2010, 12:05 PM

That's one thing that needs to go. The electoral college is no longer needed.
I vote FOR A PERSON, not a representative vote to go towards that person.

In today's era with increasing electronic polling, tallies can be compiled and data transmitted minutes after the polls close for each district.

The EC is on one thing that I believe a majority of Americans find dissatisfaction with ...
After seeing how Bush lost the popular vote, but won the EC vote and became President, it completely threw people for a loop.



“Any man who tries to be good all the time is bound to come to ruin among the great number who are not good. Hence a Prince who wants to keep his authority must learn how not to be good, and use that knowledge, or refrain from using it, as necessity requires”.

- Nicolo Machiavelli 1469-1527


Last edited by Heist; November 2, 2010 at 12:11 PM..
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  (#7)
Derpetologist
 
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November 2, 2010, 12:39 PM

Alternate thread title:

Should I really get off my ass and exercise a right and duty that billions of people around the world do not get to enjoy?


*Not intended to be a factual statement.
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  (#8)
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November 2, 2010, 01:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heist View Post
Too many people fought, sacrificed, and ultimately died for my right to vote. To not do so would be dishonoring them and their sacrifice.
Agreed. More people really need to look at it that way.


"If brains were gas. You wouldnt have enough gas, to drive a piss-ants' motorcycle, half-way around a BB."
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November 2, 2010, 01:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heist View Post
That's one thing that needs to go. The electoral college is no longer needed.
I vote FOR A PERSON, not a representative vote to go towards that person.

In today's era with increasing electronic polling, tallies can be compiled and data transmitted minutes after the polls close for each district.

The EC is on one thing that I believe a majority of Americans find dissatisfaction with ...
After seeing how Bush lost the popular vote, but won the EC vote and became President, it completely threw people for a loop.
The EC reminds of the BCS in some way...


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  (#10)
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November 2, 2010, 01:53 PM

The EC is necessary to preserve the merit of our geographic diversity, otherwise, the top-5 to 10 most populous states could elect based on popular vote on their own. What the EC ensures is that whatever promises one would have to make to win the most populous states, while alienating all of the rest, would be insufficient to win the presidency--thereby forcing a candidate to have a less extreme platform that attempts to resonate with both a large percentage of the people, in as diversified (both geographically and economically) manner as possible. The whole "popular vote only" thing for a single executive branch office would ensure that the least populous states don't really get a say, or even contact with a candidate.


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  (#11)
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November 2, 2010, 02:19 PM

Your vote doesn't count.

A) I don't have faith in the actual polling system.
Many stories are told every election about a polling station that post bad numbers. Remember the stories of districts claiming 0 votes when a dozen people from the same family all voted for a guy like Ron Paul? Who actually won the Bush/Gore vote in Florida?

Let's say I give you that.

B) Who cares? We have a one party system where the differences are only minutia. Example: McCain/Obama the biggest issue was bank bailouts. Both pushed them through congress just before the election. It was the single most important issue and there wasn't a side that wanted to take a different approach. So really, who cares? Want me to shoot you in the heart or the brain? Either way you lose donkey.

C) "Write someone in" you say? See point A. But take it a step further: Even if they counted it, unless it's an approved person, it's thrown away by rule. Yeah... you have to make the ballot or the aproved write in list (may as well have made the ballot...) or YOU CAN'T VOTE FOR THE PERSON YOU WANT. If you can't vote for the person you want, you don't have a choice and therefore don't have a vote.

All you "voters" are just buying into the hype and the illusion that you have a say. Truthfully, the people lighting speeding cameras on fire have a louder, more effective voice than you. Voting is a lazy way to say you're participating. All you did was get a sticker. Like a 1st grader, that's enough for you.
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November 2, 2010, 02:50 PM

+1 Cutter

Funny, I just answered a call from the O'Malley campaign about 10 minutes to go. Had anice little convo.... I told her I wasn't going to vote. And that it is literally choosing between a giant douche and a turd sandwich. You're just voting between 2 sets of special interests, wealthy blue-blood donors and sometimes both candidates get money from the same people!

It's rigged against us so I ain't gonna participate.
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  (#13)
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November 2, 2010, 02:51 PM

Why waste your time?
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November 2, 2010, 04:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by birdman View Post
The EC is necessary to preserve the merit of our geographic diversity, otherwise, the top-5 to 10 most populous states could elect based on popular vote on their own. What the EC ensures is that whatever promises one would have to make to win the most populous states, while alienating all of the rest, would be insufficient to win the presidency--thereby forcing a candidate to have a less extreme platform that attempts to resonate with both a large percentage of the people, in as diversified (both geographically and economically) manner as possible. The whole "popular vote only" thing for a single executive branch office would ensure that the least populous states don't really get a say, or even contact with a candidate.
Going to have to disagree, Marc.

If each state only contained 2 EC votes, like they do Senators, I would agree with your assessment but much like Congress - the larger states have far more representation in the EC than the smaller states.

The top 5 most populous states hold over 30% of the EC vote.
The top 10 most populous states hold nearly 50% of the EC vote.

Where is the meritocracy or geographic diversity in this? Wyoming I believe is the least populous state in the US - I don't think anyone has ever bothered to campaign hard for or make promises to Wyoming. California, they'll promise to bake cookies for every resident if it means winning that state.

What I find all the more troubling about the EC system is that if you vote for a candidate who does not win the EC for your state, your vote becomes nebulous. It simply no longer counts.

My vote may be counter or the minority to X state popular vote, but why can it not count? My vote may be in line with Y's state's popular vote. I want my vote to go to the tally of the President I voted for - not what the state/districts popular vote is.

One man - one vote. That should the method. Time to abolish the EC.



“Any man who tries to be good all the time is bound to come to ruin among the great number who are not good. Hence a Prince who wants to keep his authority must learn how not to be good, and use that knowledge, or refrain from using it, as necessity requires”.

- Nicolo Machiavelli 1469-1527

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  (#15)
Derpetologist
 
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November 2, 2010, 11:07 PM

I guess the theory is: The people elect Congress, the States elect the President. I'm all for a directly elected President, given our current state of tech, but on the other hand this is how our system was intended...

Where are your Founding Fathers now?

Last edited by Rail; November 2, 2010 at 11:10 PM..
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