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VW owners, dual vs. single mass fly wheel, what???
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VW owners, dual vs. single mass fly wheel, what??? - October 10, 2012, 01:58 PM

So I just picked up a 2003 passat 1.8T, first VW and hope I know what I am getting into. Any how the clutch is on its last leg, and after calling around come to find out more then not the fly wheel usually has to be replaced as well. Also quite a few people have different opinions on the fly wheel option.

Dual mass vs. Single mass

got a few people saying switching from the stock dual to single will give a much stronger, reliable, and longer lasting.

then on the other side some saying stick with the dual cause it was put in for a reason. single mass is more for racing applications and will result in stiffer shifting, more vibration, and more road noise on longer car trips.

who is familiar with VW, and could give some advise?

thanks


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October 10, 2012, 02:03 PM

VW Forum :: Volkswagen Forum ?



seriously though, Nubbs might know a thing or 3


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October 10, 2012, 02:08 PM

ask these mofos Single mass vs. Dual mass flywheel??? - TDIClub Forums

My SVT Focus has a dual mass flywheel/Getrag tranny, and I don't think it was put there by accident.
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October 10, 2012, 02:32 PM

I can tell you a lot of the CTS-V guys get rid of the dual mass FW. Mine has not given me any issues (aside from a release clunk from time to time when it is loaded up and you get on the clutch) but there is a greater risk of something going wrong with more moving parts.


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October 10, 2012, 03:13 PM

(1) I never knew VW offered the Passat here in the US w/a 5-Speed

(2) Given the 1.8T is a low torque engine even after its chipped the last thing you want for a car that is to be driven in a manner consistent with normal street applications is a low mass flywheel. This is not an engine that needs to rev and get "on cam" to make its power.



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October 10, 2012, 07:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heist View Post
(1) I never knew VW offered the Passat here in the US w/a 5-Speed

(2) Given the 1.8T is a low torque engine even after its chipped the last thing you want for a car that is to be driven in a manner consistent with normal street applications is a low mass flywheel. This is not an engine that needs to rev and get "on cam" to make its power.
low mass flywheel = ? dual mass or single mass


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October 10, 2012, 08:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by short_mike View Post
low mass flywheel = ? dual mass or single mass
My fault. I was skimming the post. But the same principles apply, Mike.

Dual masses are essentially tuned to the car's torque curve, so, if you plan on keeping the engine relatively stock or below lets say 10% above stock HP/TQ after tuning, run the dual mass.

If you're playing with the engine, single mass for the simplicity but at the expenses of the smoothness and vibration reduction the dual mass provides.



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October 11, 2012, 02:08 AM

I would absolutely go with a single mass flywheel. The lower weight will really improve the engines response. I doubt you'll notice much, if any, discomfort with a single.

TDI Clutches - Dual Mass, Single Mass, Everything in Between... | Volkswagen Diesels & Other News at TDI Blog

Dual Mass:



Single Mass:



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October 11, 2012, 07:27 AM

Yes I have been reading a lot about the dual and single mass in the diesels, but this one is not a diesel.

I don't really plan on playing with the engine much, a few extra hp would be fun, but I don't want to jeopardize the fuel economy, if anything increase it.

I was reading somewhere that the dual mass does get better fuel millage as it puts less strain on the motor, but how much?


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October 11, 2012, 07:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by short_mike View Post
Yes I have been reading a lot about the dual and single mass in the diesels, but this one is not a diesel.

I don't really plan on playing with the engine much, a few extra hp would be fun, but I don't want to jeopardize the fuel economy, if anything increase it.

I was reading somewhere that the dual mass does get better fuel millage as it puts less strain on the motor, but how much?
I find it hard to believe that a heavier flywheel promotes better fuel economy.

From what I've read, all of the nuances of the SM-FW come with installing it on the TDI engine, not the standard gas engine.

Most manual cars out there use a single mass.


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October 11, 2012, 08:08 AM

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I find it hard to believe that a heavier flywheel promotes better fuel economy.

From what I've read, all of the nuances of the SM-FW come with installing it on the TDI engine, not the standard gas engine.

Most manual cars out there use a single mass.
Ya, I couldn't find any info on the standard gas engine.

and that is what one shop told me, they don't even know why VW even put a dual mass fly wheel in there and always recommend going to a single mass, as its lighter, stronger, lasts longer, shifts easier and smoother. but then another shop that specializes in VW says they put it in there for a reason, smoother shifting, less road noise and vibration, better gas millage as it puts less strain on the crank, and recommends to stay with dual mass.


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October 11, 2012, 08:09 AM

what to go with?


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October 11, 2012, 09:03 AM

There is no disadvantage(including reliability) to going single mass except for noise, some folks report they hear a faint rattle yet most say they don't hear anything at all. That's the main reason VW used it (along with softer engagement).

If you can find a single mass kit for cheaper then the dual mass kit then it's a win-win; dual mass kits are stupid expensive, less reliable, and heavy.


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October 11, 2012, 09:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by short_mike View Post
Ya, I couldn't find any info on the standard gas engine.

and that is what one shop told me, they don't even know why VW even put a dual mass fly wheel in there and always recommend going to a single mass, as its lighter, stronger, lasts longer, shifts easier and smoother. but then another shop that specializes in VW says they put it in there for a reason, smoother shifting, less road noise and vibration, better gas millage as it puts less strain on the crank, and recommends to stay with dual mass.
Remember, dual masses are tuned to the engine. VW used it because they wanted reduced NVH. Think of it like a secondary harmonic balancer. Given that the gas engine will put significantly less torque strain on unit, the relative life should be greater than it would be in a TDi.

The real question is how long do you plan to keep this car? Less than <120K mi Go with whatever one is the least cost.

>120K, you'll probably want to go with a single mass for longevity's sake.

Either way, whichever one you get should last you 100,000 mi unless you abuse your clutches.



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October 11, 2012, 09:44 AM

I'd recommend getting the clutch kit at Discount Auto Parts Online -- PartsGeek.com - Domestic & Import Auto Parts Warehouse . I got an OEM clutch and flywheel combo there for like $390 shipped, not even ebay could come close to the price.
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