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Bridgestone BT-002 and 003
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Bridgestone BT-002 and 003 - June 18, 2008, 10:43 AM

As a short preamble, Ken Stanford Sr. (PitPig) forwarded this to me.

Over the last few race weekends I've been slowly adding suspension and tweaking it. Penske Double for CMP, Ohlins 25mil for first summit round (Rebuilt by Boomboom himself - thanks Jay!), Tweaked masterfully by Rick from RnR Cycles of Sterling Va on the second Summit round... each time the bike felt better but not good, the back would spin up, especially out of 2 and 7 (many of you saw my near highside dirt-tracking skillz through 8 ), a little out of 9.

I've had the most uncomfortable feeling of instability on the bike. We raised the ride height about 5mm (Thanks again to BoomBoom) and I immediately dropped a full second. The bike once again felt better but not great. Granted I'm not running the fastest lap times, a lot of twitchiness can be taken out by simply adding more throttle and not being a Nancy... but the bike would feel significantly more unstable.... What this guy is describing below is dead on what I've been feeling.

Going to try to take some tips from this writeup, raise the ride height a little more, and change the pressures for VIR and report back. But in any case, this might even be useful for street guys too. It seems the profile of the Bridgestones is kind of unique.

Cheers.

Taken from a florida forum (LINK INCOMING)

Quote:
Alright - home - kids are in bed - I'll try to give an in depth review of the Stones and hopefully it will help some of you. I would give a review of the slicks but the 003 is just about exactly the same now so it's not really necessary - except they generate 1/2lb less air pressure going from warmers to full hot coming off the track. I would say they last a bit longer but I ran 35 laps on the slicks and 33 on the DOT's this weekend and neither dropped off.

002 - I started on these 3 weekends ago. To start with I thought they were great at a .24 pace - Set the temps to the recommended 32f - 32r and they were o.k. They have a more triangular shape than the Dunlops I'm used to so they dropped to full lean really quick which I thought was great at this pace. As soon as I started to pick up the pace though the front started to chatter and the rear would break loose under drive throttle out of every corner. I started asking some questions and I found t hat if you run the front at 33.5lbs hot instead of the suggested 32lbs the chatter disappeared. From what I am told the soft front is so grippy that if you don't have a lot of time and a suspension person on your team to try a lot of different front end set-ups it is just way easier to add the extra 1.5lbs of air and it allows the tire to loose a little grip - imagine that - which stops overloading the front and amazingly the chatter goes away. So for the 002 - 003 - and slick front - run the higher air pressure and the front works marvelous. As far as the rear, I had huge problems getting it to give me drive grip. Corner entry was good, mid corner under maintenance throttle was good but as soon as I tried to apply progressively more throttle exiting the corners the rear would start to spin. I am used to the Dunlops and when they would spin under drive throttle they would still drive you forward. Not so with the 'Stones at the current settings. They would spin and as long as I didn 't apply more throttle they would keep spinning at that point - but if I tried to apply more throttle the rear would snap out really quick - not a good thing. I tried everything I could think of and I could not get the tires to hook exiting the corner. The biggest problem is that none of the suspension guys at our CCS FL rounds have work with the 'Stones so they really didn't know anything about them, GREAT!! We raised and lowered the rear - changed sag, high and low speed comp, rebound but we could not get the tires to hook after 5 laps. This basically went on for two whole day at JGP and I was pretty frustrated after our race weekend - fastest laps I could run on 'Stones 1.20.1 during races - Dunlop times I would run .18.3's in practice - FRUSTRATING!!! I think this is why a lot of people don't switch tires. I had this problem on all three types of 'Stones so as far as the rear 002 goes - it is probably good with a good set-up - I would say that the triangular shaped rear may cau se the side grip to go away a little faster but the 002 is no longer available so it's not really an issue.

I came home feeling that the tires just can't be that bad but that's what I kept getting from the susp. guys and just about all the guys I hang with at the track - they love to be loyal so of course it's the tires fault. I know a lot of guys that run WERA run the 'Stones so I figured I would call Thermosman to see what he had to say about the Stones. He asked the particulars of my bikes set-up and after I told him were it was he says, "no wonder you are having problems. Your swing arm angle is no where near steep enough and the bike is to low to the ground all together. Raise the front, jack up the rear, set the clickers here, and free sag here." I said, "Uh, O.K." Remember the set-up I had on the bike was easily turning 18's at JGP so I didn't think it was that far off. He said it wasn't bad for the Dunlops but the Stones are completely different and needed the bike s et up like he said. I make the changes and then call him about 5 more times just to make sure I have it right as I am sick of wasting time at the track chasing this thing.

I show up at Homestead wondering how the tires will work and am hoping Thermosman knows what he is talking about. Well, he is a genius!!!!!!! My plan for the first few sessions is to finally figure out the tire pressures for these tires, starting with the slicks. Thermosman gave me a general idea of where they need to be so I had a great starting point. I went out for four laps and flew down hot pit to set the pressures where they need to be. It took me three times down pit lane during the first two practice sessions to get the pressures stabilized. Even during this process the tires are hooking good and I am running a 1:32 pace - I was pretty excited considering the fastest practice times I have run @ Homestead is 30.6 on Dunlops. I run another session on the slicks and get down to 30.4's pretty consiste ntly - SWEET!!! I switch to the DOT's and set the pressures .5lbs less than the slicks. This works perfectly and they come right up to temp like I wanted. I run three sessions on the 003's and run a couple 30.0's but most times are 30.1-30.7. Pretty good considering these are laps 25-33 on the same 003's that were breaking free @ lap 5 @ JGP. I call it quits on practice day extremely happy with the Stones and feel I can easily get back to my best Dunlop times at each track.

On new tires I was able to get to 29.8's and that was lap 8 on new slicks. I take it very slow when pushing harder because I hate to crash and it is pretty hard reprogramming your brain after 3 full weekends of these same tires breaking loose constantly. If it hadn't rained I really think I could have been running the 28.3 pace I did on Dunlops pretty easily. 29.8's to 30.5's all day long with no issues what so ever!!!

I am very glad T-Man hooked me up with the proper set-up for my bike for these t ires because I was getting ready to just go back to the Dunlops. If you give the Stones a go - make sure the bike is set up for them. The front was easy to figure out but not so much for the rear.

I should charge half the money I spent figuring these tires out for this info I am about to give out - but since I really like to help people here goes:

cold (tires 88 degrees) front 27.5lbs - rear 21.5lbs - yes it's low - don't argue - that's what works!!

warmers until rims are hot - front 30.5lbs - rear slick 25lbs, DOT just under the 25lb line

hot - as soon as you come off the track - hot pitting - front 33.5lbs - rear 28lbs

You will want to check your tires after 4 laps to make sure your at these pressures - this is where these tires work.

After you are done riding let the tires completely cool and then check your cold pressures -- they should be pretty close to what I have here - just remember, it's the HOT temp that you want to set the pres sures to so you may have to tweak your cold and warmer temps a 1/2 pound of so since we all are at different lap times.

I'm pretty much hooked on the Stones and I hope ya'll like them as much as I do!!!


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Last edited by B; June 18, 2008 at 10:53 AM..
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June 18, 2008, 11:09 AM

Ben we'll talk at VIR...I had some serious issues last year with Bridgestone pressures...this year the pressures have made a huge difference as far as tire traction, feedback, and wear. I had a nice talk with the Bridgestone guys when they brought the big truck and that combined with input from Q and Derek have helped solve the issues.

Although...bike is still not quite where it needs to be it is getting there but now the tires are working much better. I'll go into more detail down there and you'll be able to see the tires I'm running on practice which are from the last Summit round.

I only have the 02's...from what I hear the 03's are completely different.


Chris
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June 18, 2008, 11:38 AM

I wish I had known you were running bridgestones, I would have talked to you sooner... the chatter he's talking about, that's what's making me feel like the bike is unstable. I got no issue with sliding around and getting goofy... I was on the throttle through a near tankslapper, off turn 7, through turn 8 - no fears there, but more throttle input invariably makes the bike feel worse... the problem is that chatter... I have to figure out what it is...

The ride height issue and pressures are what I'm worried about. On the 002's I was running 27r/30f off the warmers, which probably put me 28r/32f on the 002s but which seems WAY too low. Stickboy suggested these pressures, now I realize he was refering to the 003's which have a stiffer sidewall. I'm really hoping a little more ride height and some pressure in the front will clean up the bike a little.


SV650s for SALE!!!
- 2007 SV650 Racebike-Superbike KWS/Thermosman suspension/Swenz bodywork/All GSXR Parts
- 2009 SV650 Streetbike Race blue with white stripe/No wrecks/fully faired with M4 full system

Shoot me a PM or talk to Nate (Nudist) if you're interested in purchase.

Last edited by B; June 18, 2008 at 11:41 AM..
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June 18, 2008, 11:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gixrB
I wish I had known you were running bridgestones, I would have talked to you sooner... the chatter he's talking about, that's what's making me feel like the bike is unstable. I got no issue with sliding around and getting goofy... I was on the throttle through a near tankslapper, off turn 7, through turn 8 - no fears there, but more throttle input invariably makes the bike feel worse... the problem is that chatter... I have to figure out what it is...

The ride height issue and pressures are what I'm worried about. On the 002's I was running 27r/30f off the warmers, which probably put me 28r/32f on the 002s but which seems WAY too low. Stickboy suggested these pressures, now I realize he was refering to the 003's which have a stiffer sidewall. I'm really hoping a little more ride height and some pressure in the front will clean up the bike a little.
Hum...I have the pressures I run written down so I don't want to give you the wrong pressures. I'll show you my tires before we run on Friday so you can see how they wear. You and I run pretty much the same pace so the pressures should work for you. Also, you'll need to change the pressure depending on the temps outside as well.

The key is how and when you set the pressures...I'll show you what I do so hopefully it works. If not, I have a few other tricks up my sleeve


Chris
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June 18, 2008, 11:48 AM

Slick! Thanks Chris.

Unfortunately I won't be down Friday until late, so perhaps we can grab dinner and go over it, or talk on Sat. morning. I think you're slotted to pit near us, Berte is supposed to be clearing an area Thursday.


SV650s for SALE!!!
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June 18, 2008, 11:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by gixrB
Slick! Thanks Chris.

Unfortunately I won't be down Friday until late, so perhaps we can grab dinner and go over it, or talk on Sat. morning. I think you're slotted to pit near us, Berte is supposed to be clearing an area Thursday.
Sounds like a plan...what I do is honestly pretty easy. It works for me but depending on how you ride you may need to adjust accordingly. At least you'll have a starting point. When I changed the pressures down at CMP...I dropped 8 seconds off my lap times...although I still didn't figure out the lines down there but the tire pressures made a HUGE difference.

We'll catch up and you can try out the pressures in practice so you'll at least get a feel. Problem is, VIR is so different than Summit that I'm not even 100% which direction I'll need to go as far as pressure/suspension set up.

Between Marc's brain and the pressures, some lettuce and ketchup we should be good


Chris
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June 18, 2008, 12:07 PM

agreed!

Thanks Chris.


SV650s for SALE!!!
- 2007 SV650 Racebike-Superbike KWS/Thermosman suspension/Swenz bodywork/All GSXR Parts
- 2009 SV650 Streetbike Race blue with white stripe/No wrecks/fully faired with M4 full system

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