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Keith Code Reality Of Tires! a must read!
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Keith Code Reality Of Tires! a must read! - October 6, 2009, 08:15 AM

http://forums.superbikeschool.com/in...?showtopic=877


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October 6, 2009, 08:27 AM

pretty good article


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October 6, 2009, 08:31 AM

Good stuff.


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October 6, 2009, 09:11 AM

good read


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article - October 6, 2009, 09:14 AM

Well explained, thanks for posting it


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October 6, 2009, 11:16 AM

good read. i like how he explains stuff (first time reading something from him)

so this part:

.... Pushing the loads on the tires up for a moment when the rest of the lap was at your normal pace will not give the tire enough time to warm up to the level you momentarily demand from it to handle the situation.

In other words, your potential and that of the tires have to come up together for you to take advantage of what the tire has to offer. To a large degree, the security of the stickiest rubber is false. Until you arrive at some consistency in your levels of speed and lean angle and throttle control and the other technical parts of riding it is no more then blind faith.


how does that compare to the group rides set up on here that read, "we'll be taking it easy on the straights and picking up the speed on the corners"....sounds like a set up
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October 6, 2009, 11:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneway View Post
good read. i like how he explains stuff (first time reading something from him)

so this part:

.... Pushing the loads on the tires up for a moment when the rest of the lap was at your normal pace will not give the tire enough time to warm up to the level you momentarily demand from it to handle the situation.

In other words, your potential and that of the tires have to come up together for you to take advantage of what the tire has to offer. To a large degree, the security of the stickiest rubber is false. Until you arrive at some consistency in your levels of speed and lean angle and throttle control and the other technical parts of riding it is no more then blind faith.


how does that compare to the group rides set up on here that read, "we'll be taking it easy on the straights and picking up the speed on the corners"....sounds like a set up


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October 6, 2009, 12:40 PM

I'm no tire expert, but he makes it sound like there is a 1 degree ideal tire temperature.

I think there's probably a decent temp range where tires work at 99.9% of their peak, which means that his statement doesn't really apply to anyone in real life. It sounds exaggerated to me.
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October 6, 2009, 12:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oneway View Post
how does that compare to the group rides set up on here that read, "we'll be taking it easy on the straights and picking up the speed on the corners"....sounds like a set up
On the track, people brake into corners and hammer out of corners. On the street, most people just keep a steady faster pace in the corner which is the reason for the saying above. As such, when you keep a steady pace, you don't really need super-awesome-straight-off-the-tire-warmers tires. You can lean pretty far and drag knee no problem even in freezing temps. Maybe tonight I will try to track down some of my old winter 33 ride videos showing this. (At the same time, you can't accelerate much at all or the tires start to slip and slide.) Tires tend to fail as you break into and accelerate out of corners mostly... not because people leaned over too far.
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"
In the end it isnít about the tires it is about the rider. Itís about using good technique and having good technical skills. Itís about gaining some consistency with them and knowing you can do it. After that, itís not so difficult to trust your tires because you trust yourself.
"

ZE PERFECT ENDING TO A PERFECT POST
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Exclamation October 6, 2009, 12:57 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Witold View Post
On the track, people brake into corners and hammer out of corners. On the street, most people just keep a steady faster pace in the corner which is the reason for the saying above. As such, when you keep a steady pace, you don't really need super-awesome-straight-off-the-tire-warmers tires. You can lean pretty far and drag knee no problem even in freezing temps. Maybe tonight I will try to track down some of my old winter 33 ride videos showing this. (At the same time, you can't accelerate much at all or the tires start to slip and slide.) Tires tend to fail as you break into and accelerate out of corners mostly... not because people leaned over too far.
LOL

DUDE YOU GOT NO CLUE WHAT REAL FAST RIDING IS IF THAT'S WHAT YOU DESCRIVE AS FAST RIDING

AND THE RESON YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT KEITH IS TALKING ABOUT IS BECAUSE YOU HAVEN'T RIDDEN AT THAT FAST PAST YET TO UNDERSTAND WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT...
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October 6, 2009, 01:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Witold View Post
I'm no tire expert, but he makes it sound like there is a 1 degree ideal tire temperature.

I think there's probably a decent temp range where tires work at 99.9% of their peak, which means that his statement doesn't really apply to anyone in real life. It sounds exaggerated to me.
This statement is true for the street. But on the track you'd be surprised what tire temp has to do with the tires' correct operation. When I'm using race DOT's the tires look great after I come off the track running a fast pace. After a much slower school session, the same air temp and tire pressure has the tires looking shagged. I'll try to take comparison pics the next time I'm at Cornerspeed. It really surprised me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Witold View Post
On the track, people brake into corners and hammer out of corners. On the street, most people just keep a steady faster pace in the corner which is the reason for the saying above. As such, when you keep a steady pace, you don't really need super-awesome-straight-off-the-tire-warmers tires. You can lean pretty far and drag knee no problem even in freezing temps. Maybe tonight I will try to track down some of my old winter 33 ride videos showing this. (At the same time, you can't accelerate much at all or the tires start to slip and slide.) Tires tend to fail as you break into and accelerate out of corners mostly... not because people leaned over too far.
This isn't quite true.
You always have 100% of what a tire will offer at any given time and set of conditions. If it is cold you are just using more of the tire's potential traction for just cornering loads so there isn't as much left for acceleration and braking while leaned over.
It's just the tire's ultimate traction limits are lower when the tire is cold.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveZX9 View Post
When I'm using race DOT's the tires look great after I come off the track running a fast pace. After a much slower school session, the same air temp and tire pressure has the tires looking shagged.
hmmmm good point of view of it....
I ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT WAS BECAUSE OF "RIDING FAST AND SMOOTH" VS. "FIGHTING THE BIKE AND NOT RIDING SO SMOOTH"
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October 6, 2009, 01:45 PM

Wasn't this pretty much a promotional piece to go to his school?

Shocker: Better riders get more from their tires than less experienced riders.

Really? That's what everyone should know?
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October 6, 2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveZX9 View Post
This statement is true for the street. But on the track you'd be surprised what tire temp has to do with the tires' correct operation. When I'm using race DOT's the tires look great after I come off the track running a fast pace. After a much slower school session, the same air temp and tire pressure has the tires looking shagged. I'll try to take comparison pics the next time I'm at Cornerspeed. It really surprised me.
I know there's difference when we're talking about huge speed discrepancies like comparing B group speed to A group speed. I'm just questioning extending this sort of rationale to much smaller speed differences. It's pretty hard to shave off 2s from a lap time. It's a very big difference. Considering this, I wonder how much different tire temps are between running 1:19 and 1:17 or 1:18 at Summit. Are the temps really that different (for the same rider)? That's my first question. And secondly, is optimal grip found at such super tight temp range anyway? Basically, my initial thoughts are that it's not... that the optimal tire temp range is decently wide, and that temps aren't that different when we're talking 1-2 second difference in lap speeds. I may be wrong.
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