DCSportbikes.net  
» Help Support .NET!
DCSportbikes Premier Membership for 25$ per year. Discounts! Click here for full information.

Now available in the .NET Shop:



Get your DCSBN Gear!
» Shoutbox
Sorry, only registered users have the ability to use our real-time shoutbox to chat with other members.

Register now, it's free!
» Online Users: 555
3 members and 552 guests
2blueyam, Scot, tonetone
Most users ever online was 4,519, September 2, 2015 at 03:26 AM.
Go Back   DCSportbikes.net > Sportbike Operation > Tips from the Experts

Reply
LinkBack Thread Tools
Race Gas Questions
Unread
  (#1)
GDMFSOB
 
The Evil Twin's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,543
Join Date: June 22, 2008
Location: North PWC
Race Gas Questions - February 21, 2012, 10:33 AM

'Sup folks. I haven't quite found all the answers to my questions via search, so here it goes.
I have a zx6 that is track only. It has a PC, BMC filter, block-off plates, Yoshi slip and a Pinebox header. I am used to a ZX10 and want to eek out some more power out of the little 6. Since I plan on getting a proper tune, I figure why not go ahead and run U4 or MR12 in it. I figure that I can drop the current map back into the PC if I want to switch back. The cost is indifferent to me, I just am looking for more info technical. Specifically:

Can I expect to see a decent increase in power (3-5%)?

How long can/ should the bike sit with that fuel in there without problems? Obviously not over the winter, but a couple weeks?

Since RVP on race fuel is higher, anything I need to do to insulate my fuel lines/ tank other than the factory heat shielding?

Which fuel would be recommended for a stock motor (13.4: 1 compression) with these minor mods?

Thanks


#132 EX
Proudly representing: DC-MOTO, Amsoil, SHOEI, Woodcraft-CFM, MARRC

2015 MARRC Crash & Burn Award
2014 MARRC Sportsmanship Award
2013 MARRC Amateur of the Year
2012 MARRC Cornerworker of the Year
www.marrc.org

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillie View Post
Here is my anus! Deliver thy penis unto it!.
  Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#2)
Я - Ребенок Люциферов
 
vonstallin's Avatar
 
Posts: 15,825
Join Date: November 2, 2006
Location: Wash DC: (2 min from Adams Morgan)
February 21, 2012, 10:38 AM

Im not 100% sure but i think the power increase you expect are on point, but to be honest, id look elsewhere for more power.

I don't think you can leave race fuel in more than about 4 weeks, but i could be wrong.
i see most pump it out, but I think it lose some of its power when sitting open.
I think investing in a super STOCK build is money better spent. maybe cams and a thinner head gasket.

Race fuel is super costly (like $100+ for 5 gallons)


The Nightmare of Summit Point
WERA Nov# 325 / CCS # 326
2016 ZX10R ABS (Street) | 2011 ZX10RR(Race)
2011 R6 (Street & Track) | 2009 WR250F
GunnRunnaz.com|GR on FaceBook | www.2666ad.com|
  Facebook Page MySpace.com Page Send a message via AIM to Send a message via MSN to vonstallin  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#3)
Power One User
 
Todd's Avatar
 
Posts: 542
Join Date: June 14, 2006
February 21, 2012, 10:43 AM

I would recommend U4 if you are dead set on using race fuel. It will def increase power a few ponies and throttle response is improved also.

I have only used race fuel in my 1098 once and the difference was noticeable for sure, but not worth the hassle in my opinion. It's not going to drop laptimes any significant amount.

The hassle of draining the fuel, fucked up fuel pumps and the ridiculous cost just isn't worth it to me, unless you are just interested in the cool smell.


CCS AM #710
  Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#4)
GDMFSOB
 
The Evil Twin's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,543
Join Date: June 22, 2008
Location: North PWC
February 21, 2012, 10:45 AM

True on the cams. Where have you purchased yours? Not many hits on a search.

I do like the smell but not dead set on it


#132 EX
Proudly representing: DC-MOTO, Amsoil, SHOEI, Woodcraft-CFM, MARRC

2015 MARRC Crash & Burn Award
2014 MARRC Sportsmanship Award
2013 MARRC Amateur of the Year
2012 MARRC Cornerworker of the Year
www.marrc.org

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillie View Post
Here is my anus! Deliver thy penis unto it!.
  Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#5)
#47 GODSPEED BAMBAM
 
dodge131's Avatar
 
Posts: 12,567
Join Date: May 31, 2006
Location: NOVA
February 21, 2012, 10:49 AM

Are you racing or track days? If racing and you are in the top 10 then yes race gas can help. But if you really want to lower your lap times do suspension work first. Then once you have gotten that sorted get race gas if racing. Race gas for track days is a huge waste of time and money. What year bike?


www.RnRcycles.com


Home of RNR Repsol Racing.

Missing all my fallen friends and family! If Life Was Easy Then Everyone Would Do It!
  Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#6)
GDMFSOB
 
The Evil Twin's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,543
Join Date: June 22, 2008
Location: North PWC
February 21, 2012, 10:55 AM

It is an '07. Tracking for the time being. Considering racing. I have had REDLEVEL molest my suspension with some RaceTech love. I spent most of the latter half of last season tweaking it to where it feels solid and tire wear is pretty damn even.


#132 EX
Proudly representing: DC-MOTO, Amsoil, SHOEI, Woodcraft-CFM, MARRC

2015 MARRC Crash & Burn Award
2014 MARRC Sportsmanship Award
2013 MARRC Amateur of the Year
2012 MARRC Cornerworker of the Year
www.marrc.org

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillie View Post
Here is my anus! Deliver thy penis unto it!.
  Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#7)
Officially Addicted to Posting
 
Chris's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,660
Join Date: August 30, 2006
Location: Reston
February 21, 2012, 11:15 AM

I would spend the money on a class like Cornerspeed/spin first. You'll get much more for your money versus race fuel. I know it smells great and you get to think youre going to be faster, but its not worth the hassle for a track day. Learn to get on the gas sooner. 91 octane gas.


"I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you fuck with me, I'll kill you all." -MG James Mattis, Iraq 2003

Ruining .net one post at a time
  Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#8)
The last urrbendah
 
Stillie's Avatar
 
Posts: 18,909
Join Date: February 5, 2003
Location: Kickin' it with Stevie Janowski
February 21, 2012, 11:18 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Evil Twin View Post
It is an '07. Tracking for the time being. Considering racing. I have had REDLEVEL molest my suspension with some RaceTech love. I spent most of the latter half of last season tweaking it to where it feels solid and tire wear is pretty damn even.
Then spend that money on more track time and/or instruction unless you're just dead set on race gas.


13 KTM 200 XC-W
15 KTM 350 XC-F

I might have a dirt bike problem.
  Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#9)
Mojito Anyone?
 
onel0wcubn's Avatar
 
Posts: 10,208
Join Date: April 28, 2008
Location: La Habana
February 21, 2012, 11:35 AM

I had a set of kawi kit cams for that motor that i never installed.. sold them to some dude on kawi forums.. also had kit ecu that went to the same guy.. cams are out there.

did you do the Jumper mod?

I was never able to get the power i wanted out of my bike without going internal.. all the power is top end so you have to stay high in the rpm range.. the bike likes to scream.

i still have those full floating rotors and throttle kit for it if you are in the market.

i know the motor inside out pretty well so let me know if you need help with anything


ay ya yay
  Send a message via AIM to Send a message via Yahoo to onel0wcubn Send a message via AIM to onel0wcubn  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#10)
Railing!
 
Posts: 368
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Ashburn, VA
February 21, 2012, 12:35 PM

First, I don't ride. But, my son does, and raced on his 600RR. When he started getting regularly into the top five or so in CCS races, he started using race gas, and started regularly getting into the top three...at $22+ a gallon, so it did help a little, but only a little. But, if you're doing track days, what's to be gained for the extra $18+ per gallon??? [edit: By the way, he never ran race gas on a track day even while practicing for a race (unless he happened to have a gallon or so left over he just wanted to burn. Nothing to be gained in practice).

As to the other question, I had an opportunity to sit down with a couple of professional race team tech specialists/team managers (while we were sitting around between/after races) and discuss race gas, because my son was contemplating running it in the future. Some of their universal responses:

- Its not worth the cost unless you're racing and dicing for the podium. Moving up from 12th to 8th gets you where??? You have many other riding issues to master in that scenario before the race gas will do you any good. Track day practice maybe, but only if you're practicing to duel for the lead.

- They said they drain the gas every day immediately after their last race. They also frequently run standard gas through the engine for several minutes (5-10) to clean the interior if they're not going to tear it down to some degree and clean it up and still have to go in and clean stuff up fairly regularly. Leaving it in even overnight (in their opinion) was simply asking to blow the engine (or have significant performance problems) due to gummy residue in the fuel system and engine. If you left it for weeks or more, the race additives would significantly break down (losing the performance advantage) and the residue would cause massive problems. I can't speak to the validity of these issues because we did drain it every afternoon and run standard 91 octane for five minutes (and had no issues).

Perhaps improvements in race gas since 2009 might have solved some of this, but I haven't followed the issue for the last two years so you'll have to ask some more recent users..

Last edited by PitPig; February 21, 2012 at 12:40 PM..
  Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#11)
B
It goes to 11.
 
B's Avatar
 
Posts: 16,806
Join Date: November 8, 2004
Location: Moet Chandon on a Schlitz budget
February 21, 2012, 12:58 PM

The 6 won't ever come close to the power of the 10, racegas or not.

I don't even bother to buy race gas unless it's the difference between a podium and contigency money or not. You'll only get 2-3hp, maybe, on an engine that isn't built or tuned for it, and you really do need to drain it at the end of the day and run some regular fuel through it so your system doesn't get mucked up.

Useless for trackdays, or practice, generally.


SV650s for SALE!!!
- 2007 SV650 Racebike-Superbike KWS/Thermosman suspension/Swenz bodywork/All GSXR Parts
- 2009 SV650 Streetbike Race blue with white stripe/No wrecks/fully faired with M4 full system

Shoot me a PM or talk to Nate (Nudist) if you're interested in purchase.
  Send a message via AIM to Send a message via AIM to B  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#12)
GDMFSOB
 
The Evil Twin's Avatar
 
Posts: 4,543
Join Date: June 22, 2008
Location: North PWC
February 21, 2012, 01:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
I would spend the money on a class like Cornerspeed/spin first. You'll get much more for your money versus race fuel. Learn to get on the gas sooner. 91 octane gas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillie View Post
Then spend that money on more track time and/or instruction unless you're just dead set on race gas.
Understood. I don't care about "cool factor". If I did, I wouldn't be using rattle can painted no name plastics I am a firm believer that you should learn to ride a slow bike fast instead of riding a fast bike slow. My lap times have improved with the 6 over the 10. That f'ing Kawi 10r motor is downright scary at times. I feel like a lot of it is being able to open it up out of the turns. That being my downfall as well; having been conditioned to be wary of the throttle on the 10.
91 though? I figured it should be higher with the nearly 14:1 comp. Been using 93.
Quote:
Originally Posted by onel0wcubn View Post

did you do the Jumper mod?

I was never able to get the power i wanted out of my bike without going internal.. all the power is top end so you have to stay high in the rpm range.. the bike likes to scream.

i still have those full floating rotors and throttle kit for it if you are in the market.

i know the motor inside out pretty well so let me know if you need help with anything
From what I understand, the jumper mod is overridden by the PC. At least that is what I have read so far. Maybe I will be able to afford the rotors by not using race fuel . And thanks for the offer, I certainly might take you up on it. You have been quite the help already.

And thanks, PitPig. I do appreciate the info.


#132 EX
Proudly representing: DC-MOTO, Amsoil, SHOEI, Woodcraft-CFM, MARRC

2015 MARRC Crash & Burn Award
2014 MARRC Sportsmanship Award
2013 MARRC Amateur of the Year
2012 MARRC Cornerworker of the Year
www.marrc.org

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stillie View Post
Here is my anus! Deliver thy penis unto it!.

Last edited by The Evil Twin; February 21, 2012 at 01:10 PM..
  Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#13)
Elite Racing
 
Castle's Avatar
 
Posts: 7,716
Join Date: July 10, 2007
Location: HSV
February 21, 2012, 01:16 PM

Dean, suck it up and join me using pump gas.


Chris
Elite Racing
CCS AM #458

Godspeed Bam Bam

VFR Matt: gotta be a winner at something. Cant reach for the stars mind well be king of suck
tecknojoe: we could get together at my house and mount my trailor
vonstallin: whack one off 4 me henrey
thefitzvh: I'm the assholist asshole that ever assholed
  Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#14)
Mojito Anyone?
 
onel0wcubn's Avatar
 
Posts: 10,208
Join Date: April 28, 2008
Location: La Habana
February 21, 2012, 01:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Evil Twin View Post
From what I understand, the jumper mod is overridden by the PC. At least that is what I have read so far. Maybe I will be able to afford the rotors by not using race fuel . And thanks for the offer, I certainly might take you up on it. You have been quite the help already.
I hadn't heard that...


ay ya yay
  Send a message via AIM to Send a message via Yahoo to onel0wcubn Send a message via AIM to onel0wcubn  
Reply With Quote
Unread
  (#15)
Racing my bikes
 
Apriliaman's Avatar
 
Posts: 325
Join Date: March 28, 2005
Location: silver spring,md
February 21, 2012, 02:08 PM

I use VP in my ducati 100ds.
I have used U4.4-MS103-C12.
I do not drain my gas every weekend.
I leave race gas in it all year and NEVER had any fuel related problems with leaving gas in it.
In the winter I have pump gas in it.
Same for my SV 650.


Winner of over 50 CCS Regional Championships,
Winner of 7 CCS National Championships
CCS Overall top 10 plate holder since 2006
2005 Ducati 1000SS
2000 Aprilia RSV 1000
1999 Suzuki SV 650
1995 Yamaha Verago 750
1992 Yamaha PW50
1992 Yamaha FZR 400RR 3TJ
1988 Yamaha FZR 400
1987 Kawasaki EX500
  Send a message via AIM to  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0
vBulletin Skin developed by: vBStyles.com
All logos and trademarks in this site are property of their respective owner. The comments are property of their posters, all the rest 2002-2010 by DCSportbikes.net. DCSportbikes.net is owned by End of Time Studios, LLC.