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What is trail breaking
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What is trail breaking - January 24, 2008, 12:29 PM

What exactly is trail breaking,
When best to use it,
and, how exactly is it achieved?
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January 24, 2008, 12:32 PM

I think that is something that the early settlers did. Did you mean Trail Braking? Try a search for that and you should find your answer here and elsewhere

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January 24, 2008, 12:37 PM

Braking through or after initial turn in.

Often far to dangerous if you dont know what your doing. Best to get your braking done before the initial turn in. If using the front brake for trail braking its very easy to wash out the front, and the rear can lock very easily.

Ive found using the rear very lightly in turns can help to tighten up your line, esp if you start to drift wide.

Always rember the key is to be smooth, smooth on the brakes smooth off the brakes, etc etc...


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January 24, 2008, 12:41 PM

You usually learn trail braking on the streets by accident imo.
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January 24, 2008, 12:49 PM

This has been covered...search should bring up the posts.

Here's a quick read: http://virtualracersedge.com/trail_braking.htm

My advice is take a trackday school before trying this because you don't have too much error margin especially on the street.

If you're riding so fast on the street that you need to trail brake...IMO you need to slow down.


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January 24, 2008, 12:50 PM

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January 24, 2008, 12:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnage
You usually learn trail braking on the streets by accident imo.
+1 I did not know what it was called till now. Thanks Brad.


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January 24, 2008, 01:41 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carnage
You usually learn trail braking on the streets by accident imo.
Or taking the backroads home!


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January 24, 2008, 01:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dodge131
Or taking the backroads home!
Or riding dodges line through a certain MD area late at night. lol


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January 24, 2008, 02:02 PM

I use trail braking through a turn, it's usually where I am rolling off the brakes (dragging the brakes lighter and lighter and lighter) before I hit an apex in a turn and roll into the throttle more and more and more.

It's basically transitioning from braking off to throttling on through a turn, for me. I've found as I get a little better and faster my throttle and braking are less digital. I don't grab a ton of brake before a turn then snap open the throttle. I break hard into a turn then drag the front brake lever continually softly until I hit the apex, come off the brakes completely, and roll into the throttle while exiting.

That may or may not be right... in any case I did it instinctively, not purposefully.


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January 28, 2008, 01:01 PM

Thanks to you who either provide usefull information or humor! ( I always like getting a good chuckle)

To those of you that posted care bear BS or no information, please post to the "no tips from the experts" forum.

I asked because as I was reading a bike test on "motorcyle daily" they mention how fast a bike is and how much they had to trail break. So I was wondering extactly what is was and how it translates to corner speed. doesn't sound like it does but if someone wants to stated why's that not so I would be glad to hear it.

When I took the cornerspeed class, Aaron's technique was to have your braking done before the corner and keep the bike neutral though the corner. not upsetting the chassis is the best way not to loose a wheel. Thus quicker laps times. I'de suspect that these two phiosophies are opposites, in there most basic application (ie, not advanced cornering technique) Guess the bike testers don't really care about laptimes so much as hotrodding down the straights and getting sideways in the corners.
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January 28, 2008, 01:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2wheelin
When I took the cornerspeed class, Aaron's technique was to have your braking done before the corner and keep the bike neutral though the corner. not upsetting the chassis is the best way not to loose a wheel. Thus quicker laps times. I'de suspect that these two phiosophies are opposites, in there most basic application (ie, not advanced cornering technique) Guess the bike testers don't really care about laptimes so much as hotrodding down the straights and getting sideways in the corners.
You took Cornerspeed Level 1.
If you take Level 2 there is much work dedicated to trail braking.
It is considered an advanced technique that is very difficult to master correctly. It is much safer to not use trail braking but using it lets you get into a corner deeper and faster thus lowering your laptimes and it's a great way to pass others.


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January 28, 2008, 01:15 PM

ah, I see the connection now. thx for the explanation Steve.

An obviouse racing technique! Don't think I'll be needing that for trackdays and I don't have a need to race. Just nice to understand what I read!

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January 28, 2008, 02:26 PM

Trail braking is still having some braking going on after the bike is leaned into a corner. It’s called trail braking because you’re no longer hard on the brakes, but easing off (trailing off) as the bike is leaning in.

This is not taught in Cornerspeed level 1 for several reasons. The main idea is to raise your mid corner speed which is a fundamental basis for good lap times. Getting into and out of the corners harder is the focus of level 2 school. To be able to raise your corner speed you need to be able to accurately judge your entry speed. This gets more complicated when braking past the turn in point is added. It’s only a one day school and there is a lot of stuff to work on.

Besides hampering development of corner speed and line selection, aggressive trail braking is fraught with peril. There’s only so much traction for given conditions and sharing it between braking and cornering forces takes a deft touch. There is a very wide range of student skills coming through Cornerspeed. An unacceptable number would be hitting the ground if trail braking was incorporated in level 1.

All that said; I encourage both street and track riders to [carefully] experiment with trail braking so it is in your tool kit. If you’re already near the limits of lean or traction then it is way too late for trail braking. At that point any thought of brakes will put you down and is why you should never “cover the brakes” on track or twisties. However, there are plenty of situations where a surprise comes up but there is still time to scrub speed with the brakes while partially leaned over. Practice to get the feel of how your bike responds.

All that said; if you need to trail brake due to surprises on the street with any regularity then you are riding over your head.

All that said; sometimes I use trail braking while riding with buddies who have a higher risk tolerance (and more modern bikes) around blind turns. By making up time going into turns I can carry a lower corner speed and still stay with the group. This is combined with early throttle roll on coming out of corners. YMMV


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January 28, 2008, 02:54 PM

Good stuff Jim! Thanks!!!



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