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Need help diagnosing starting issue...
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Need help diagnosing starting issue... - June 13, 2013, 03:30 PM

So the starter on my 300 has been an issue for a while. I finally figured I'd go through it and get it running.

New upgraded KTM 410-something-versus the old 350 something starter. Nope.

New Shorai upgraded battery with 210amo versus old lead acid with 80 amp. Nope.

I did find that the battery ground bold was nearly stripped out of the frame. I re-tapped that and with a bigger battery from my Duc it was turning over. Then I switched from the 280amp DUc battery to the 210amp battery and it could barely crank it. So I switched back. Now the bigger battery wasn't working.

Then I popped a fuse by the solenoid.

I am a bit confused.

Suggestions on what to chase next anybody? I can't believe that the Ducati's battery won't push the starter. So it's pointing to something else. Do I replace the battery to frame ground wire just in case it's too frayed internally?

I have a voltmeter. So I can chase around the bike. But there really isn't much to the electrical system. Do I just completely pull the wiring harness and replace it? (No, not kidding, I have a spare new one in a bag.)


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June 13, 2013, 09:50 PM

Will the starter spin if it is removed from the bike?


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June 13, 2013, 09:57 PM

Yes. Both the old one and new one spin fine.


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June 13, 2013, 10:13 PM

Binding in the starter clutch/gears?


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June 13, 2013, 11:43 PM

If the electrical connections are solid and you have a good earth ground then it sounds like something is making the starter draw a hell of a lot of current. How much voltage drop are you seeing across the battery when cranking? I don't know for certain but I wouldn't think it should drop below around 9.5 volts.


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June 14, 2013, 03:09 AM

1-First thing would be to check voltage drop at the battery while trying to crank over the engine (windblowns suggestion). Shouldn't drop below 9.5-10 volts.
2-Then measure voltage at the starter wire connection on the starter while trying to crank over the engine. You should get a reading that's within .5 volts of your first reading. If not try the same test at the starter solenoid on the starter side. I've seen starter solenoids fail internally and cause huge voltage drops.
3-Depending on your findings on step 1 and 2 I would try bypassing the solenoid with the old screw driver trick. All you old timers know the method. Take a screw driver and place the tip on the battery side of the solenoid and then lay it down across the starter side of the solenoids connection effectively bypassing the solenoid and creating a few sparks. This allows the current battery voltage to be supplied directly to the starter wire and if the starter decides to turn over the engine the way it's suppose too then you need a new solenoid.
4-If those test don't provide you an answer then check the starter reduction gears and the holes the shafts go into on the stator cover (CrazyMotorcycleGuys suggestion). With the way dirt and water can get into the left cover it would be easy for the gears to bind. Try loosening the stator cover bolts a half/full turn and see if that frees it up.

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June 14, 2013, 07:21 AM

Can you bump start the bike?

If the starter spins fine off the bike something is binding.


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June 14, 2013, 10:56 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cf3232 View Post
Can you bump start the bike?

If the starter spins fine off the bike something is binding.
That's not completely true. He's most likely using a battery with jumper cables to spin the starter off the bike and when it's installed on the bike he has to rely on the bikes electrical system to do it's job correctly . He could install the starter onto the bike but use the battery and jumper cables to try and spin the motor over and that would tell him if it's the electrical system or not.
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June 14, 2013, 10:34 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by REDLEVEL View Post
4-If those test don't provide you an answer then check the starter reduction gears and the holes the shafts go into on the stator cover (CrazyMotorcycleGuys suggestion). With the way dirt and water can get into the left cover it would be easy for the gears to bind. Try loosening the stator cover bolts a half/full turn and see if that frees it up.
I think this is the issue.

I checked the solenoid & power at starter, both were above 12.

I checked the operation of the bendix, fine.

I rotated the big gear by hand, no problem.

Starter rotates fine.

I did notice a bit of dirt and wear on a shim for the bendix. Put some grease on that, put everythign back together snug but not ridiculous tight. Hit the button and the bike was spinning over fast. So I will check it out tomorrow with the bike on the 210CCA battery. There might be a light at the end of this tunnel!!!

I hope.

Thanks for all of the suggestions! They really did help me dig through and narrow it down.

Mud


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